Dear Martin, and all, if you are going to discuss aboutness I am really sorry I cannot be there and talk about it, but life is about many things, talking about teaching and semester start...
Aboutness can be defined very wide (anything someone thinks and is willing to state relates to something else) which is not unproblematic, or we can find out what we mean by aboutness in a CH documentation setting, which is far from trivial. That is, I agree with B and D. Enjoy the meeting! Øyvind > Am 12.10.2023 um 09:23 schrieb Martin Doerr via Crm-sig > <crm-sig@ics.forth.gr>: > > > Dear All, > > With respect to issue 576, a specific aboutness, I'd like to keep in mind > > (A) to keep the CRMbase small > > (B) fear that the variety in which "aboutness" may occur is even much > greater than that between an image and what is on it. If we talk about texts, > we do not encounter the specifics of a photo showing an unknown particular, > but reference and coreference issues. Image (or voice) recognition is > cognitively very distinct from text (symbolic form). We have, in general, no > clear concept in which way the "about an unknown instance" may appear in the > information object, if not in a Visual Item. > > (C) if the distinction is necessary, the referencing symbols can always be > used to create an instance of "what was meant" at this spot of the > information object, even without further data than the type (or whatever else > the source stated). If any further reasoning about the dubious unknown item > is necessary, such an explicit representation is even preferable for > clarifying the possible identity. > > (D) In contrast however, significant amounts of texts refer > characteristically to series of instances of a particular type, such as > excavation records and many other archeological publications, geographic > descriptions, secondary historical literare, etc. These are typically NOT > represented in library catalogues, but very useful. However, I'd expect such > series to be further characterized by other unity criteria, such as area, > time people and others. This reminds me of the "referential collection" > construct, we had discussed in the Europeana whitepaper. The need not be in a > collection form. E.g. Evliya Celebi, in his famous "travel books" > systematically refers to types of buildings in cities in the Ottoman sphere > of influence. For these uses, "about instance of type" would again be > under-specified. > > Therefore, I vote to resolve the issue with a recommendation to make an > explicit URIs for isolated individuals, and further discuss "sets of > references with common characteristics". > > Opinions? > > All the best, > > Martin > > On 8/18/2023 12:00 AM, Eleni Tsouloucha wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> >> Issue 576 <https://cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-576-about-...-entity-of-type>had >> been postponed by issues 610 >> <https://cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-610-deprecate-typed-properties-in-cidoc-crm>and >> 476 >> <https://cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-610-deprecate-typed-properties-in-cidoc-crm>, >> which have almost been resolved. Specifically, as far as 610 is concerned, >> the only thing it determined was to not deprecate P125 on the grounds that >> it's used. It spawned a number of issues (none of which settles the question >> that had been raised by George in 576) >> >> >> As far as 476 is concerned, it has practically been resolved (the property >> was kept in the 7.2.x branch on the grounds that it's been used, some minute >> details to be worked around). >> >> >> I think it's time to return to this issue, and determine whether the Pxxx >> about ___ of type properties suggested by George will be part of CRMbase, >> (N)TPs or will be dealt through more intricate workarounds >> >> >> Let me know what you think (and whether this could be discussed at the next >> SIG meeting), by 1 September. >> >> All the best, >> >> >> -- >> Eleni Tsouloucha >> Philologist - MA Linguistics & Language Technologies >> Center for Cultural Informatics >> Information Systems Laboratory - Institute of Computer Science >> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) >> >> Address: N. Plastira 100, GR-70013 Heraklion, Grece >> email: tsoulo...@isc.forth.gr <mailto:tsoulo...@isc.forth.gr>, >> eleni.crm....@gmail.com <mailto:eleni.crm....@gmail.com> >> Tel: +30 2810391488 > > > -- > ------------------------------------ > Dr. Martin Doerr > > Honorary Head of the > > Center for Cultural Informatics > > Information Systems Laboratory > Institute of Computer Science > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) > > N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, > GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece > > Vox:+30(2810)391625 > Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr <mailto:mar...@ics.forth.gr> > Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl> > -- > ------------------------------------ > Dr. Martin Doerr > > Honorary Head of the > > Center for Cultural Informatics > > Information Systems Laboratory > Institute of Computer Science > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) > > N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, > GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece > > Vox:+30(2810)391625 > Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr <mailto:mar...@ics.forth.gr> > Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl > <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl>_______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
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