Greg,

I am not sure what exactly offended you. I don't see any contradiction
between what you and I say. I already explained that I understand the
situation in the TM project with regards to RSE and I don't want to blame
anyone. But we need to see the facts in order to find a solution.

I am interested to invest my time in improving and maintaining RSE and to
give the opportunity to others by reviewing their patches. If you just want
to make me a committer and keep RSE in the TM project, then I am fine with
this.

Kaloyan



On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Greg Watson <[email protected]> wrote:

> Kaloyan,
>
> Let me first correct you, because you are wrong, or at least don’t seem to
> have an understanding of how open source projects like Eclipse work.
> Development on any project is dependent on the commitment and knowledge of
> people willing to volunteer their time. Often people are able to contribute
> to a project for a period of time, but then must move on to other projects
> as priorities or other circumstances change. Some projects, like TM, are
> comprised of sub-projects that have been developed independently, and
> committers from one sub-project may have no interest or understanding of
> the activities of another sub-project. Just because they are part of the
> same umbrella project does not make them responsible for the project as a
> whole. Further, Eclipse has fairly stringent requirements on projects that
> participate in a simultaneous release, and without an ongoing commitment to
> support and maintain a project, these requirements are simply not met.
> Statements like yours simply denigrate the hard work and time that many
> people have put into a project like TM.
>
> Many companies are receiving significant financial benefits from
> incorporating software such as RSE in their products, and it is up to these
> companies and other interested individuals to step up and commit to
> supporting a project if they wish it to continue. If you’re interested in
> doing so, then I’d be happy to nominate you as a committer to the project.
>
> Greg
>
> On Dec 15, 2015, at 2:31 AM, Kaloyan Raev <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Yes, of course. Otherwise, I would not have proposed it.
> I also hope that there are others who would volunteer too for the good of
> their projects/products.
>
> Kaloyan
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Lars Vogel <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kaloyan,
>>
>> would you be interested in becoming a committer in this new project? I
>> think only creating a new project does not help, if there are no
>> committer.
>>
>> Best regards, Lars
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Kaloyan Raev <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Hi Martin,
>> >
>> > As far as I understand, correct me if I am wrong, the existing TM
>> project
>> > committers have no interest in maintaining the project, they want to
>> knock
>> > it off the release train and archive it.
>> >
>> > Of course, it is possible to maintain RSE in the TM project, but the
>> main
>> > prerequisite for this is patches from contributors to be reviewed. I
>> > submitted a simple patch [1] some time ago and it has not been reviewed
>> yet.
>> > My team wants to contribute other patches, but in the current situation
>> we
>> > would not invest the efforts.
>> >
>> > Please, don't take this as some sort of blaming, like I don't take it
>> > personally that my patch has not been reviewed yet :-) I completely
>> > understand that the current TM committers are looking in a different
>> > direction and RSE is not their focus. This is why I believe that moving
>> RSE
>> > to a separate project is the optimal solution at the moment.
>> >
>> > [1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=480836
>> >
>> > Greetings,
>> > Kaloyan
>> >
>> > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:09 AM, Oberhuber, Martin
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello Kaloyan,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Why do you think moving RSE to an “orphan project” would simplify
>> things ?
>> >>
>> >> Why couldn’t interested parties maintain RSE in its current project ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Martin
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Martin Oberhuber, SMTS / Product Owner – Development Tools, Wind River
>> >>
>> >> direct +43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: [email protected]
>> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>> Kaloyan
>> >> Raev
>> >> Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 9:15 AM
>> >> To: Cross project issues
>> >> Cc: TM project developer discussions
>> >> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] [tm-dev] Any RSE dependencies
>> in
>> >> Neon?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The DLTK project contributes a DLTK RSE feature to the release train.
>> My
>> >> guess is that no one else on the release train depends on this DLTK RSE
>> >> feature, so it would be easy to remove it if necessary.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From adopter's point of view, like JBoss Tools, Zend Studio also
>> heavily
>> >> relies on RSE.
>> >>
>> >> The new o.e.remote really has some advantages like the Synchronized
>> >> Project, but still misses some basic features of RSE:
>> >>
>> >>   - Connecting to Windows systems (no cygwin please)
>> >>
>> >>   - FTP connections
>> >>
>> >>   - Remote Systems Explorer view, which allows browsing and editing
>> files
>> >> without creating a project on a remote system, but also on the local
>> file
>> >> system using the Local connection.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> However, I suppose that Zend Studio, JBoss Tools and any other adopter
>> can
>> >> continue using RSE outside of the release train, while the project
>> remains
>> >> under the Eclipse Foundation.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> BTW, something interesting I noticed is that IBM has already a fork of
>> the
>> >> RSE project. In the IBM Rational products the RSE plugins exist with
>> the
>> >> same org.eclipse.rse.* IDs, but with version 4.4.x. RSE under the
>> Eclipse
>> >> Foundation is still with version 3.7.2. This already causes a nasty
>> >> fragmentation of RSE in the community. Any plugin that depends on the
>> EF RSE
>> >> most likely cannot be installed on IBM Rational due to dependency
>> conflicts.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So, I have a suggestion. If the TM project has no interest in
>> maintaining
>> >> RSE in future, how about moving RSE to a new "orphan" project outside
>> of the
>> >> TM project, so those adopter who still rely on RSE can continue
>> maintaining
>> >> and improving it until they are ready to switch to the new alternative?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Kaloyan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen <
>> [email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I know we are not on the release train but JBoss tools continues to use
>> >> RSE.
>> >>
>> >> Afaik there are still no replacement for the functionality it provides
>> >> with respect to UI for connecting to ssh and ftp based systems.
>> >>
>> >> If there are I would love to hear about them.
>> >>
>> >> Thus my interest is still to keep it in.
>> >>
>> >> If help is needed for including it let me know.
>> >>
>> >> /max
>> >> http://about.me/maxandersen
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On 11 Dec 2015, at 19:13, Greg Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Are there any projects that have a dependency on Remote System
>> Explorer
>> >> > (RSE) in Neon? The TM project must decide if RSE will be included in
>> the
>> >> > Neon release. Currently there is only interest in including TM
>> Terminal.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> > Greg
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > tm-dev mailing list
>> >> > [email protected]
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>> unsubscribe
>> >> > from this list, visit
>> >> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/tm-dev
>> >>
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>> >>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
>> CEO vogella GmbH
>>
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