Hi, I’ll briefly summarize the discussion we had at the AC yesterday:
Given that we don’t know how the OSGI resolver will behave (even after Tom back-ported a fix to Neon) it would be preferred to just have the Apache HTTP*** versions in Neon.3 that were already in Neon.2. This would to some extend “ensure" that we are "at least as as stable as Neon.2”. This would require us to rollback the changes that introduced the latest version of HTTPClient. As far as I know this would especially affect the Docker Tooling. (maybe more changes than that are needed) My question to the Docker Tooling project lead: Is it possible to rollback this last minute change and postpone it to Oxygen for the sake of making EGit, MPC, Oomph, USS, and Code Recommenders work reliably again - and giving us more trust that we won’t get into trouble with Neon.3? The simplest solution may be to contribute the docker tooling from Neon.2 in Neon.3. WDYT? Marcel > On 20 Apr 2017, at 18:54, Frederic Gurr <frederic.g...@eclipse.org> wrote: > > I can see org.apache.httpcomponents.httpclient_4.5.2.v20170210-0925 in > /home/data/httpd/download.eclipse.org/linuxtools/update-docker-2.3.1/plugins > <http://download.eclipse.org/linuxtools/update-docker-2.3.1/plugins>, > but it's definitely not in the aggregated repo. > > > On 20.04.2017 18:31, Jeff Johnston wrote: >> Fred, >> >> The version of httpclient also changed in our update-docker-2.3.1 repo from: >> >> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpclient_4.5.2.v20161115-1643 >> >> to: >> >> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpclient_4.5.2.v20170210-0925 >> >> Not sure why this change isn't being seen as well. >> >> -- Jeff J. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Frederic Gurr >> <frederic.g...@eclipse.org >> <mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org><mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org >> <mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org>>> wrote: >> >> Thanks Jeff, >> >> I ran a SimRel aggregation build. The only change I can see in the list >> of "Non Unique Versions used in repository" is that a different version >> of org.apache.httpcomponents.httpcore is now used. Instead of >> 4.4.4.v20161115-1643 it's now 4.4.6.v20170210-0925. >> >> I compared >> >> http://download.eclipse.org/releases/neon/201703231000/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt >> >> <http://download.eclipse.org/releases/neon/201703231000/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt> >> >> <http://download.eclipse.org/releases/neon/201703231000/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt >> >> <http://download.eclipse.org/releases/neon/201703231000/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt>> >> and >> >> https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/ws/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt >> >> <https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/ws/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt> >> >> <https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/ws/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt >> >> <https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/ws/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt>> >> >> @All: is that the intended result? >> >> Regards, >> >> Fred >> >> >> On 19.04.2017 20:21, Jeff Johnston wrote: >>> Hi Fred, >>> >>> I have just pushed a change to gerrit: >> https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95308/ >> <https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95308/> >> <https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95308/ >> <https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95308/>> >>> >>> I only changed the docker repository and left the other Linux Tools >>> features alone >>> since they were only bumped as part of the point release to fix the >>> Docker Tooling plug-ins. >>> >>> I assume I can merge the patch if the gerrit verification is >>> successful. If this is wrong, >>> let me know. >>> >>> -- Jeff J. >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Frederic Gurr >>> <frederic.g...@eclipse.org >>> <mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org><mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org >>> <mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org>> >> <mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org <mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org> >> <mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org <mailto:frederic.g...@eclipse.org>>>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Can you provide a patch for the SimRel build (branch >> "Neon.3_respin") >>> that references the new version? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Fred >>> >>> On 19.04.2017 17:27, Jeff Johnston wrote: >>>> Hi Ed, >>>> >>>> Linux tools spun a 5.3.1 release which now has a 2.3.1 >> version of >>> docker >>>> tooling. The Linux tools download site has >> update-docker-2.3.1 and >>>> update-docker, both which have 2.3.1 versions of the docker.core >>> plug-in >>>> and docker feature. Not sure why you are not seeing this. >>>> >>>> -- Jeff J. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Ed Merks >> <ed.me...@gmail.com <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com> >> <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com>> >>> <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com> >>> <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com>>> >>>> <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com> >>>> <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com>> >> <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com> >> <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com <mailto:ed.me...@gmail.com>>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Frederic, >>>> >>>> There seem to have been no notes/minutes taken during >> the meeting: >>>> >>>> >> https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017 >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017> >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017 >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>> >>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017 >>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017> >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017 >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>>> >>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017 >>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017> >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017 >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>> >>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017 >>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017> >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017 >> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>>>> >>>> >>>> I recall agreeing to provide steps for reproducing the >> problem so >>>> that Thomas Watson could test if the wiring resolution >> fix he made >>>> for Oxygen also solves the problem for Neon.3. The fact >> that he >>>> encountered "the mirroring problem" didn't help in that >> regard: >>>> >>>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213 >>>> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213> >> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213 >> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>> >>> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213 >>> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213> >> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213 >> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>>> >>>> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213 >>>> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213> >> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213 >> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>> >>> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213 >>> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213> >> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213 >> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>>>> >>>> >>>> In the end, he sent me a note saying (and I quote): >>>> >>>>> I see that now there is the same number of >> httpcomponents bundles >>>>> as there was in the messed up Oxygen M6 builds. But >> here my back >>>>> port of the resolver fix does not seem to have fixed >> the issue. >>>>> I'm unsure if that is because it gave up with the sheer >> number of >>>>> bundles or if something else is going wrong. But at >> this point >>>>> the backport of the resolver fix does not seem to be >> the solution >>>>> to the problem. >>>> >>>> I assumed (wrongly I guess) that Thomas would >> investigate a more >>>> general fix to address the wiring problem. >>>> >>>> In the end, I also wasn't sure which version of the docker >>> tools is >>>> proposed for contribution to Neon.3a. I tried to search for >>> update >>>> sites containing it like this: >>>> >>>> Nothing looks like a new version of 2.3. Goodness knows >> where one >>>> should find what's being proposed for contribution... >>>> >>>> In any case, the proposed "solution" (A) really just >> changes the >>>> version of httpclient to be one that's not broken (missing >>>> packages), but it doesn't change the wiring problem in any >>>> fundamental way. There will still be the four versions that >>> can all >>>> be installed simultaneously, so we really should expect >> the same >>>> wiring problem(s). In fact, I believe Oxygen M6 has >>> effectively the >>>> same four httpcomponents.httpclient bundle as does >> Neon.3, so >>> I'm a >>>> little suspicious whether the wiring problem is in fact >> really >>> fixed >>>> even for Oxygen. We won't know until M7 and that's a >> month away. >>>> It doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings. >>>> >>>> So at this point it remains unclear the nature of the wiring >>>> problem(s). Is it a bug? Is it fixable? Does the >> knowledge, will, >>>> and capacity to fix it exist? >>>> >>>> Without a fix to the wiring problem I think we can >> eliminate A >>> as a >>>> solution, leaving B, C, and D (i.e., focus on problem >> avoidance >>>> approaches). But I think if the wiring problem is a >> bug, it will >>>> come back, and it will raise its ugly head again when users >>> install >>>> various technologies from various sources. To my >> thinking, fixing >>>> the bug seems important. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19.04.2017 12:49, Frederic Gurr wrote: >>>>> Hi Ed, >>>>> >>>>> In the last planning-council meeting you offered to >> evaluate >>> if the >>>>> fixed Linux Tools package works as expected and if >> there are >>> still >>>>> wiring issues. >>>>> >>>>> Can you give us an update on the current state? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Fred >>>>> >>>>> On 31.03.2017 11:14, Ed Merks wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> The original thread is fractured into many threads so its >>> kind of >>>>>> impossible to follow each thread with a reply but I'll try >>> at the bottom >>>>>> of this note, i.e., below the =========== >>>>>> >>>>>> But before doing that, I'd like to re-focus on the most >>> important >>>>>> questions: *We currently have a problem with Neon.3, >> will we >>> fix it, and >>>>>> if so how will we fix it?* >>>>>> >>>>>> The discussion has quickly digressed (constructively) into >>> solving the >>>>>> issue of how Orbit dependencies should be managed by >>> projects and by the >>>>>> release train. Unfortunately I see this as a world hunger >>> issue; not >>>>>> one that is easily addressed and I believe not one we can >>> wait for in >>>>>> order to solve the Neon.3 problem. Let's face it, >> we've not >>> been able >>>>>> to produce a proper Oxygen milestone in months, we still >>> don't have one >>>>>> now, and we won't have one until next month, we hope. >>>>>> >>>>>> For Neon we've done three maintenance releases. Neon.1 >>> needed a respin >>>>>> and Neon.3 looks to be in need of the same thing. Clearly >>> something is >>>>>> seriously wrong. But if we spend our time on solving the >>> Orbit world >>>>>> hunger issue, will we arrive at a solution in time for >>> Oxygen, let alone >>>>>> in time to fix Neon.3? I am very, very doubtful. >>>>>> >>>>>> As another data point, if I install the >>> egg-laying-wool-milk-pig for >>>>>> Neon.3. The following happens. I'm prompted to >> accept this >>> license: >>>>>> >>>>>> Red Hat, Inc. licenses these features and plugins >> to you >>> under >>>>>> certain open source licenses (or aggregations of such >>> licenses), >>>>>> which in a particular case may include the Eclipse >>> Public License, >>>>>> the GNU Lesser General Public License, and/or certain >>> other open >>>>>> source licenses. For precise licensing details, >> consult the >>>>>> corresponding source code, or contact Red Hat, >> Attn: General >>>>>> Counsel, 100 East Davie St., Raleigh NC 27601 USA. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure how this license slipped into the release >>> train. Aren't >>>>>> there checks for this? (Sorry to digress, but this is >> also >>> unacceptable.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Launching the final installation comes up like this: >>>>>> >>>>>> Clearly a disgusting mess, but I've mentioned that before >>> and the same >>>>>> projects are still doing the same bad things, so we >> clearly >>> all accept >>>>>> this situation as normal. >>>>>> >>>>>> The most important point here is the error log (first >>> attachment) is >>>>>> full of exactly the problem indications (bundle wiring >>> problems) we >>>>>> should have expected from the Neon.3 repository's >> contents, >>> if someone >>>>>> were to install an arbitrary combination of the >> repository's >>> contents. >>>>>> It's really not so hard to test this! >>>>>> >>>>>> If I create the same installation with my local build >> of the >>> Oomph 1.8 >>>>>> installer---which installs my locally built version of >> Oomph >>> 1.8 so the >>>>>> Oomph setup plugins are no longer disabled because I >> made the >>>>>> userstorage dependency optional and eliminated the strict >>> <=4.4 upper >>>>>> bound constraints on httpclient, which was such a bad >> idea I >>> can almost >>>>>> have a canary to think this done to solve a problem >> with no >>> anticipation >>>>>> of the problems it would cause---then I can visit all the >>> preference >>>>>> pages producing the second attached much larger log. It >>> seems clear >>>>>> that proper testing really doesn't happen for far too many >>> projects on >>>>>> the train. With distributed responsibility, no one is >>> really responsible... >>>>>> >>>>>> ================================== >>>>>> >>>>>> Orbit Issues >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Respinning Linux Tools against Oxygen Mx seems to miss >>> the point that >>>>>> we should only distribute released versions of >> bundles, so >>> no Neon >>>>>> build should redistribute any unreleased version of >>> anything. If a new >>>>>> version of something is needed for security reasons or >> other >>> reasons, it >>>>>> should be released first. And doing that in a maintenance >>> train without >>>>>> testing the overall impact is clearly something we should >>> never do again >>>>>> (without waving a bunch of red flags of warning). And >> as Martin >>>>>> Oberhuber asks, is nothing in place to check for this? So >>> suppose we do >>>>>> respin with a fixed released version, like what we >> have for >>> Oxygen M6, >>>>>> then most likely we'd still have the problems we have in >>> Oxygen M6 so >>>>>> we'd need a fix to the resolver in Neon. Better would >> seem >>> to respin >>>>>> with the old version(s) of the Orbit bundles, but >> somehow we >>> can never >>>>>> delete the broken version from Neon and because it has a >>> higher version >>>>>> number is likely to slip back in unexpected (though >>> hopefully not, given >>>>>> that features have pinned their bundle versions). >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Don't include Orbit bundles in your project's features. >>> Sounds like >>>>>> a great idea, but begs endless questions, and while >> solving >>> a problem >>>>>> might well introduce more new problems than it >> solves. The >>> first >>>>>> question (as Carsten points out) is how do these >> things end >>> up in a >>>>>> repository, and if they are in a repository somehow, >> how are >>> they >>>>>> categorized? It's hard to get them in and once you >> do, they're >>>>>> categorized poorly. The next question is, how do they end >>> up in the >>>>>> release train, if the projects that need them don't >>> contribute them? >>>>>> Directly from Orbit you say? But which ones should be >>> pulled in from >>>>>> Orbit and how is that discovered? Are those the ones the >>> projects have >>>>>> tested against? Then there is the question of whether an >>> installation is >>>>>> deterministic if the bundle version isn't pinned? >> It's not; >>> it will >>>>>> depend on what's in the repos that are available at >> resolve >>> time. But >>>>>> Gunnar argues that even packages are not deterministic, >>> which I think is >>>>>> false: if the feature pins the bundle version and the >>> package requires >>>>>> the feature, then the pinned bundle is definitely in that >>> package. But >>>>>> regardless, Gunnar's important point is that the runtime >>> wiring seems >>>>>> kind of non-determinstic, and while uses constraints might >>> help, who the >>>>>> heck understands those well, what tooling produces it >>> correctly for us, >>>>>> is that nicely integrated in PDE, and will it be properly >>> maintained (in >>>>>> contrast to lower bound constraints which you can pretty >>> expect will >>>>>> remain on whatever stale version they were initially set >>> to). This may >>>>>> well be the right direction in which to go, but getting >>> there isn't >>>>>> going to be even half the fun... >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Ed >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list >>>>>> cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>> >>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>> >>>>>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >>>>>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>> >>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>>> >>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your >> password, or >>> unsubscribe from this list, visit >>>>>> >>> >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev> >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev>> >>> >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev> >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev>>> >>>>>> >>> >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev> >>> >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list >>>>> cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>> >>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>> >>>>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >>>>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>> >>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >>> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org >> <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>>>> >>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or >>> unsubscribe from 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