-Caveat Lector-
Mike Moxley wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Libertarians: The Cult of Liberty
> by Mike Moxley
>
> Libertarians claim to be the promoters and defenders of Liberty in the
> truest sense of the intentions of the founding fathers of our nation. Is
> this so?
>
> To the Libertarian, the ULTIMATE VALUE of Libertarianism is Liberty, rather
> than Liberty being the result of a moral government of, by, and for a moral
> people.
Up until this point Moxley has it right. The rest is crap.
> The morality being based in religious principle. The founders knew
> that morality could not exist outside of religious principle:
>
> "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is
> wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
That was his opinion. The founders knew how corrosive was the power of
organized religion and always tried to keep it weak in regard to the
state while allowing individual use of religious addiction to
supernatural
nonsense.
>
> "Our ancestors established their system of government on morality and
> religious sentiment. Moral habits, they believed, cannot safely be
> entrusted on any other foundation than religious principle, not any
> government secure which is not supported by moral habits.... Whatever makes
> men good Christians, makes them good citizens." - Daniel Webster
Can they be good citizens if they are not Christians? Can they be
moral if
they are not Christians? What is moral anyway?
> We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human
> passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or
> gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale
> goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and
> religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
> - John Adams, Oct.11, 1798 Address to the military
Hey Moxley, how do you feel about Capitalism? How does it fit into
your
Christian morality as expressed above?
> "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
> religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man
> claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars
> of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and
> citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that
> national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
> -George Washington
This from a man who got to be the richest man in the country by
stealing
the land he promised as payment to his soldiers for fighting a
revolution
of the rich.
>
> While the Libertarians have a form of morality as in their oft quoted: "Our
> liberties stop at another's nose", the libertarians lack of a moral
> STANDARD causes them to overshoot the nose and land one right between the
> eyes of another. In other words, because of a lack of a moral standard,
> 100 Libertarians have 100 different ideas just exactly where your nose starts.
You got that right.
> So what religious principle is this American morality based in? Well, who
> were the fathers and grandfathers of our revolutionary founders? The
> pilgrims and men such as Smith, Raleigh, William Penn. The morals of these
> men came from the religious principles set forth in the Holy Bible. They
> dedicated this land to the God of the Bible. To wit:
>
> Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian
> Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first
> colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly
> and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and
> combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better
> Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by
> Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws,
> Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be
> thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto
> which we promise all due submission and obedience. -Mayflower Compact, 1620
>
> The founders spoke of the morality of the Christian faith. The writings,
> speeches, and quotes of the founders show that the Bible was their source
> of morality. To the founders liberty was from God and was a direct result
> of living that morality and believing, despite overwhelming adversity, that
> God would bring them to victory and to true liberty. They actually believed
> that "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty" -II Corinthians 3:17.
So a bunch of superstitious bigots steal a continent in the name of
Christian
morality. That's typical.
> Proof?
> History will also afford the frequent opportunities of showing the
> necessity of a public religion, from its usefulness to the public; the
> advantage of a religious character among private persons; the mischiefs of
> superstition, &c. and the excellency of the Christian religion above all
> others, ancient or modern. -Ben Franklin
Based on Christian history, I would not make the claim that Franklin
did
for the excellency of the Christian religion above all others ancient
or
modern. Chauvinism is one thing, but lying in the face of history is
silly.
> "I shall now entreat you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus
> Christ, for "there is no salvation in any other", [Acts 4:12]. If you are
> not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must forever
> perish." -John Witherspoon, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
>
> "My only hope of salvation is in the infinite, transcendent love of God
> manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the Cross. Nothing but
> His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord
> Jesus! Come quickly!" -Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of
> Independence
>
> "I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three
> persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance,
> equal in power and glory. That the Scriptures of the old and new testaments
> are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may
> glorify and enjoy Him." -Roger Sherman, Signer of the Declaration of
> Independence and the US Constitution
>
> "The rights essential to happiness.... We claim them from a higher source -
> from the King of kings and Lord of all the earth." - John Dickinson; signed
> the Constitution and a member of the Continental Congress
>
> Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is impossible that a nation of
> infidels or idolaters should be a nation of free men. It is when a people
> forget God that tyrants forge their chains.- Patrick Henry
>
> "I have little doubt that the whole country will soon be rallied to the
> unity of our Creator, and, I hope, to the pure doctrines of Jesus also." "I
> shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our
> forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in
> this country." -Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the US, chosen to write
> the Declaration of Independence
Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. So were many of the founders. Not all of
them
were superstitious idiots like those quoted here. The above quote is
highly
suspect.
> So now having established the religious principle in which the founders
> based there morality, let's compare that to the Libertarians (who claim to
> be the ideological progeny of the founders) sliding scale, near-anarchist
> approach to morality.
>
> The membership speaks for itself; homosexuals, lesbians, assorted perverts,
> drug abusers, and abortion rights activists are the most outspoken. It is
> a party of the self. Me, Me, Me. Quite the opposite of the biblical
> morality of the founders. The founders would not have tolerated the above
> mentioned. It is also noteworthy that for all the Constitution worshipping
> that they do, they would deny those same constitutional protections to the
> weakest of Americans, the unborn child. Denying the child the right to
> Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Very hypocritical stance indeed.
>
> Is the Libertarians ultimate value really even Liberty? It seems that what
> they really seek is selfish gratification of various vices and the freedom
> to partake in those vices. This is NOT liberty but rather licentiousness
> and avarice. This is what happens when freedom is not tempered by virtue
> and a moral standard.
You got that right.
> Libertarianism is NOT the descendant of the beliefs
> of the founders, but is rather in extreme opposition to it.
This is not true. The founders who were Deists were generally
libertarian
in outlook and wary of the powers of the church.
> snip
> "Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the
> liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He
> therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most
> to promote its virtue, and who, so far as his power and influence extend,
> will not suffer a man to be chosen onto any office of power and trust who
> is not a wise and virtuous man." -Samuel Adams
Doesn't know shit about politics, but makes damn good beer.
>
> "If we and our posterity reject religious instruction and authority,
> violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of
> morality, and recklessly destroy the political constitution which holds us
> together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us, that
> shall bury all our glory in profound obscurity." -Daniel Webster
Wasn't this guy a minister, or witch doctor, or boogie man, or
something?
> "Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people. The general
> government . . . can never be in danger of degenerating into a monarchy, an
> oligarchy, an aristocracy, or any despotic or oppressive form so long as
> there is any virtue in the body of the people." -George Washington
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Good one George.
>
> "Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government." -George
> Washington
So says thief Washington.
> It is easy to see that the founder's idea of Liberty, morality, and virtue
> stand in stark contrast to the modern day Libertarian view.
Not true.
> Libertarianism
> is more of a quest for a moral justification for selfish gratification than
> a quest for liberty.
>
> Libertarianism is nothing more than a Cult of Liberty, or more exact, a
> Cult of Licentiousness.
You got that right.
> A cult of pious infidels and idolaters, claiming
> patriotism and liberty, parading a form of morality, yet with no religious
> principle to anchor a morality.
Morality and religion are not intertwined. Morality stands on its own.
Religion + morality = hypocrisy. Just look around.
>
> "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men
> shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud,
> blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural
> affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of
> those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more
> than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power
> thereof: from such turn away." -2 Timothy 3:1-5
The last days that the author is speaking of came and went about 19
centuries
ago. Nothing has changed. The description above describes the human
condition.
Religion has had almost no positive affects on that condition, and one
can
argue that religious justification for bad behavior has produced some
of the
worst catastrophes for humanity.
Keep your religion in church, and leave the rest of us to decide how
to be moral.
Joshua2
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