-Caveat Lector- Karla Turner's 10 Facts in Respect to Alien Abductions: 1) We don't know with any certainty exactly what these entities may be; they may be extraterrestrial, inter-dimensional, earthly or some combination of the above. 2) At least some of the aliens lie. [Predictions, warnings, promises, and contradictions.] 3) During encounters, the human's perceptions are controlled as are the conscious memories of the encounters. 4) False memories can overlay and disguise the actual events of an encounter. 5) Abductees report alien controlled information to the research community. While reporting their experiences honestly and sincerely, abductees are really reporting alien-controlled data. 6) There is a serious element of human involvement in the abduction phenomenon, in addition to the very real alien participation. Many abductees are monitored and harassed by human agents of some sort and the cases involving phone and mail interference, helicopter surveillance are only part of the story. 7) The abduction agenda involves quite physical aims and procedures that belie the idea of a primary spiritual motivation on the aliens part, as well as refuting the notion that all they're doing in their agenda is crossbreeding. There are physical procedures and aims that have nothing to do with reproduction. These include: various types of implants in parts of the body; insertion of wires and tubes into the chest, kidneys wrist and knees; brain operations, deliberate pain experiments (ouch!); abductees immersed in water, forced ingestion eating or drinking of unknown fluids, cloning of humans et.al. 8) The agenda involves long-term mental and psychological programming of the abductee, it targets among other concepts: our social and personal relationships, our sexuality, our political ideas, and our religious and spiritual concerns. These are targets of programming that begin in almost every instance, with the abductee in early childhood. 9) Aliens through technology create virtual reality scenarios that are absolutely real to the perceptions of the targeted person. All five senses are involved. 10) The aliens show an extraordinary interest in human souls and in using those souls. [Soul recycling centers, black boxes, etc.] Conclusions: Why are they here? Who in truth are these beings? What technology do they posses that allows them to implant, to control, to clone, to harvest energy and physical material from us? What does the government know about this agenda? What is their part in the intimidation, harassment, and even abduction of abductees? This is the focus of where we must concentrate research efforts, in spite of our wishes, in spite of our fears. I do not believe that there is any room for fantasy in our thinking. Not with the potential consequences of this presence. ------- Re: 10 Facts Regarding alien abductions//Karla Turner "Frank W. Zammetti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 7/5/1997 I echo your thoughts completely. It is unfortunate in the extreme to realize that your words will fall on completely deaf ears. You'll probably get flamed at some point, a few people will try to refute what you've said, even though you are 100% correct. I've always said that no matter what abductions and UFOs are, whether aliens, time travelers or government black projects, that almost doesn't matter, we still need to have an answer. What if abductions are the result of some toxic chemical infesting the world's water supplies? It's possible to some degree, at it's just as important a revelation as if there are creatures from another planet trying to use us for genetic experiments, or whether it's Satan and his minions preparing for a war to end all wars for the eternal damnation or salvation of all the souls of humanity? Whatever the answer, we need to forge ahead and do serious research to discover the answer, not be guided by our emotions and baseless beliefs. It is sad that too many people just go to one extreme or the other: 99% of people I would guess either believe everything they read or nothing at all that they read. They are guided by some "gut" feeling that what they believe is correct, although it's based on nothing. How many people believe in God? What proof do they have? How much proof do we have of UFOs and aliens? We have absolutely NO proof that God exists, none whatsoever, no matter how weak. We do however have evidence that aliens and UFOs exist, although admittedly it's very weak and circumstantial and very non-specific evidence at best. But it's still something to examine, something to research. Why is it then that so many people can blindly accept the existence of God but will fight with you tooth and nail to the bitter end that aliens cannot possibly exist, that UFOs are hallucinations, that abductions are just dreams? I can't fathom that at all. Keep up your intelligent writing, perhaps it will make a difference some day. For now though, you'll meet a very few people who treat you with respect and logic in their replies, as I try to do, and for now, these are the people who represent a glimmer of hope within a vast sea of stupidity, blind faith and lack of thought. Take care! Frank W. Zammetti ------- Art Wholeflaffer Responds: Thank you for your compliment and insights Mr. Zammeti. I totally agree with your assessment that we have to use good science to explain this phenomenon. Fortunately or unfortunately when all the evidence is added up, the only logical conclusion is that there are and have been extraterrestrials visiting this planet for millennium. When real science is used to analyze animal mutilations, human abductions, crop-circles and crop-pictographs, human and animal implants, trace-cases, super-sonic craft that can stop motionless and then tear off at thousands of miles per hour, in addition to numerous other anomalies, the only theory possible that can explain this phenomenon is obvious off-world life-forms known as aliens. When the true history of the Military/Pentagon; Intelligence Agencies; Defense Contractors and UFO-Debunkers is studied and analyzed, these conclusions become absolute. There has been and is an on-going cover-up at the highest level of one of the most important issues in the history of the human race. But instead of liberating alien technology for all mankind to use, such as free-energy devices and anti-gravity units; Northrup-Grumman Lockheed-Martin Marietta; Boeing-McDonnell Douglas have decided to use this technology to make weapons of mass destruction. The potential to have transformed this planet and it's people into a unified race for the benefit of all has sadly passed. What is coming up is almost to horrible to contemplate, but contemplate it we must. David Jacob's recent book titled, "The Threat" I can assure you is just the tip of iceberg, which is far from encouraging. Why humans insist of remaining ignorant of the facts is tragic and most unfortunate; only this time ignorance will not be blissful! Had these alien-technologies been released for all mankind to use peacefully, then the petro-chemical and nuclear industrials would have shut down very rapidly. Instead, these deadly industries are leading us to complete environmental destruction. Global warming, ozone depletion, deforestation, dying oceans and other maladies are all Global realties which are getting much worse instead of better. The evidence suggests that the various ET races who are in contact with humans won't shed a bitter tear when the elimination of mankind is completed, and truthfully, neither will most human beings. Because of numerous genetic flaws, the human race was most likely created to see if we could raise above our own internal weaknesses and learn to cooperate with each other. Obviously the worst aspects of our behavior have won out. Although the vast majority of mankind are decent hard-working and family-oriented people, the Controllers of our Industries and Militaries are psychopaths that WANT to see mankind destroyed. These criminal sadistic greed-heads have put their needs to acquire trillions of dollars and enormous power over the welfare of the rest of mankind. These sick and twisted individuals most likely will succeed in getting their and our death- wish. Apparently our only hope is that the alien-human hybrids that the Greys are going to re-populate our planet very soon with will be more benevolent than us. Life as we know it, I can assure you, is over permanently. This planet is too important for other ET-races to allow us to continue to ruin it. ------- * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.sonic.net/~ric * ICQ# 19633976 * * *** SkeptiChat: sliding down the razor-blade of life *** now featuring SkeptiNews: All The News That's Fit To Question email INFO or SUBSCRIBE SKEPTICHAT to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 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