-Caveat Lector- Jewish is just one of many influences that shaped who I am, but it did not DETERMINE anything. It's a small piece in the puzzle.
Funny, it seemed more like chastisement to me than a shout out to others. My thoughts on morality have hardly been dipped into here, for they really were not the point. I made a joke you found distasteful. You told me that joke shamed the jewish community. Whatever. It's a funny joke. Still makes me laugh. Get over it. on 01/08/03 11:01 PM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > Thew, several points. > You identify yourself continuously as someone who is Jewish as if that > determines your views. I don't see you consistently singularly > associating your views to gender, profession, locality, family type, > age, wealth, political choice, religious connection or any other marker. > If you did, I'm sure there would be others who would correctly point out > that your views aren't the views of everyone in that group, particularly > if your remarks are nasty and insulting toward others outside of that > group. > > It's obvious your thoughts about morality aren't very thought out and > are rather simplistic and self-serving. (Compassion...I'd rather not > start listing what can be done to others in the name of compassion.) I > just wanted to point out to others that that this is so not because you > a Jewish spokesman, but because you are just someone who is entitled to > voice any kind of opinion on a site like this. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On > Behalf Of thew > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 9:53 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Community morality > > -Caveat Lector- > > This post is slightly different than the one you sent me on SAT , no? > Unfortunately I accidentally deleted that puppy - I think it was more > cogent. > > > I don't think I mentioned anything about sexual morality - so I'm not > sure > what your disclaimer is about. > > > I think "just be a good human being" would be an excellent law - too bad > it > has never been tried. Maybe there are too few good human beings. > > God? Cosmic consciousness? My beliefs are certainly not based on either > of > those problematic concepts. > > > In your original post you implied that My view was that any belief > system is > valid, and that I would allow anyone any action because I accepted all > beliefs as equal. I don't think that is what I said. > > What I said was that a person who acts "correctly" because of external > pressure to act that way is not behaving Morally. Moral behavior is when > you > act correctly because you believe it is the right way to act. > > > People can think what they like. That is freedom. Does that mean > anything > they think is moral? No. never said that. Does that mean any act is > permissible? Nope - never said that either. > > Did I deny community? Nope - I just said that I define my community > rather > more broadly than you define yours. > > I was very explicit about what I think is moral - I did not say that > everyone's morality was equally correct. > > Let me repeat: I stand for freedom of thought and action, guided by > compassion. > > You focused on the 1st half of that, and ignored the compassion part. > Typical really. > > Now lets rein this in a bit and get back to the discussion - I made a > joke - > a tasteless joke, especially in the context - but a joke none the less. > You > told me my joke was not "serving the Jewish community." My joke was not > made > by, for, or in behalf of the Jewish community, as I am not the Jewish > community. I am a person, perhaps with an inappropriate sense of humor. > > You then told me you have no sense of humor when it comes to the Jewish > community. I tell you - you have not learned the behavior patterns or > survival skills of the community you claim to typify. The Jewish > response > has ALWAYS been humor - it is our greatest strength - the ability to > disarm > tragedy through humor. > If anyone is not true to the ideals of the so-called Jewish community > then, > it is you not I. > > > Because I defended humor, you asked me where I stood about morality - > And told me I was outside the morality of the Jewish community. I agreed > - > that is not the community that I primarily define myself by. > > I am not sure where you get from that the idea that I think all morals > are > equal, all communities equally legitimate ,and all actions acceptable. I > just think that basing morality on fairy tales and bloodlines is > ridiculous > at best, and more often dangerous than not. > > > > > > on 01/08/03 1:31 AM, Zuukie at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> >> I reached my posting limit on Sunday, so I could not reply to you > then. >> Here is the response to your comments which appear after mine. >> >> Let me say here when I talk of morality, I am not just talking about >> sexual morality. I am talking about all interactions between >> individuals, individuals as community members and those actions which >> link an individual's life to a plan that seems to go beyond the world >> immediately around us. >> >> There is no contradiction in what I say. The history of the >> determination of what is moral behavior toward others is demonstrated >> very clearly in the Talmud for example where the leaders of the Jewish >> community analyzed thru argument using precedent and review of > accepted >> religious writings the basics of what was moral behavior in given >> situations. Community law had to conform to moral law. Moral law was >> not determined by what community law was. Nor was it not left to what >> each individual community member considered valid in their own > thinking, >> because individual belief is limited by one's own experience and one's >> own exposure to information. In addition, human beings seem to very >> successfully rationalize any kind of action they want in their life. >> There would have been no necessity for religious law or civil law if >> "Just be a good human being" was good enough law. Your do-it-yourself >> moral code is very New Age and rests on the idea that every person is >> part of God energy and is tapping into some sort of cosmic > consciousness >> to determine what is acceptable individual morality which needs no > other >> justification. Authorized community morality, or laws, then become >> determined by those who are in power and have the strongest will as > not >> all individual moral positions can be accommodated where there is >> community life. >> >> You talk of your morality not as a response, but as of your own >> determination. Idealistic. How will you resolve the differences >> between your morality, the morality of others and the morality of > those >> in power when there is a conflict? How can you hold on to your moral >> beliefs in the face of those in power whose moral beliefs are > different >> than yours and still survive as a member of a political community? >> >> You say that individuals can think what they wish. Can they act on > what >> they believe or are they only allowed to think what they wish? Read >> Gene Veith's book, Modern Fascism. Modern Fascism is not what you > think >> it is. > > -- > All the thoughts of a turtle are turtle > > Emerson, Journals, 1855 > > > > > > > > NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew > > <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > ========== > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > ======================================================================== > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> > ======================================================================== > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > ========== > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > ======================================================================== > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> > ======================================================================== > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om -- The concept of ³god² is just a future memory of ourselves. Barney Funkasaurus NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
