On Saddam, Lockerbie, Bin Laden And Peace
Sunday, January 12, 2003; Page B01
In an exclusive interview held inside one of several tents at the compound bombed by the U.S. military in 1986, Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi revealed last week that Libyan intelligence has provided information to the United States about al Qaeda. The 60-year-old strongman made it clear that he would like an end to U.N. sanctions against his country, which the State Department continues to list as one of seven nations that sponsor terrorism. One of the keys to lifting sanctions, however, is something that Gaddafi still seems reluctant to do: accept responsibility for the 1988 bombing of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie,Scotland.
During the 90-minute talk with Newsweek-Washington Post's Lally Weymouth, Gaddafi denounced the proposed U.S.-led overthrow of Saddam Hussein, while making clear that he did not care for Hussein. But it appears that President Bush's tough stance toward Iraq is having an effect here, too: One of Gaddafi's senior aides recently asked a British official, "Will they come after us?"
Excerpts:
A Libyan was convicted for the bombing of Pan Am 103. Will you take responsibility for the bombing?
The whole world bears witness to this man's innocence. It was not possible for the court to prove that Abdel Basset Ali Megrahi put the bomb in the baggage.
Libya must meet five conditions to get sanctions lifted. The outstanding issue is assuming responsibility.
Is there any state that would take responsibility for the bombing of a civilian aircraft and the killing of 270 people?
France took responsibility for blowing up [the Greenpeace ship] Rainbow Warrior [in 1985].
Maybe they said they felt sorry for the incident and paid compensation.
Would Libya do that?
I don't think there is any problem for Libya to do that. We feel sorry, irrespective of who did it. Libya also may contribute to the compensation.
Your officially designated lawyers signed an offer of $2.7 billion of compensation for the victims on October 23rd of last year.
There is nothing official. Libya cannot pay such a fine.
Haven't there been negotiations for compensation?
There have been official negotiations which cover compensation and closing the file once and for all.
Are you referring to the ongoing talks between American, British and Libyan officials?
Yes. We attach hope [for] a meeting [scheduled] to take place at the end of this month. We hope an agreement can be reached to provide suitable compensation, which Libya alone will not pay. Perhaps Libya and the U.S. will contribute to a compensation fund.
Why would the U.S. contribute?
To compensate for the Libyans who were killed in the 1986 bombing [of Gaddafi's compound] -- as well as for the victims of Lockerbie. How much do you think the compensation should be for Gaddafi's daughter [who was one of the victims]? If a normal American needs $10 million, then a daughter of Gaddafi should be worth billions.
In the 1980s, you heavily backed terrorist groups. Since then, you expelled Abu Nidal and reportedly have backed off terrorism. Is this so?
I supported liberation, not terrorist movements: I supported [Nelson] Mandela and Sam Nujomo, who became president of Namibia. I also supported the liberation movements of Palestine.
Now they go to the White House and are given the red carpet treatment. But I am still considered a terrorist. I wasn't wrong when I supported Mandela and the liberation movements. If colonialism came back to these countries, I would back liberation movements again.
One U.S. concern is that Libya is stockpiling chemical weapons and manufacturing other weapons of mass destruction. Are you?
Libya has signed all conventions that prohibit the manufacture of such weapons. The International Atomic Energy Agency has routine inspections in Libya.
But at Rabta and other plants, you are said to be making chemical weapons.
The issue of Rabta is over. Now foreign companies are working there, and it is just a pharmaceutical plant.
Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said that Libya, with the help of Iraq, would be the first Arab country to develop a nuclear weapon. What is your response?
He is crazy. He is just dragging America behind him everywhere he goes. We regret that Sharon has become the president of America.
Would you like to have nuclear weapons?
They are of no use to us, and we don't have enough money to manufacture weapons of mass destruction.
What do you think of the U.S. approach to Iraq?
The issue of Iraq is a strange story. It takes us to the boundary of irresponsibility. What is the danger Saddam poses?
You must know Saddam?
I know him well.
Is he rational?
I don't think so. But even if he is not rational or wise, he does not constitute a threat.
But President Bush thinks he does.
We don't know who poses a greater threat -- the American president or Saddam Hussein.
The U.S. has a formidable military. Will Saddam stay and wait?
Despite the fact I do not agree with him, what is being done against him now is not the right thing. He doesn't deserve this.
On what do you disagree with Saddam?
Over the war he waged against Iran, over his invasion of Kuwait and on the Kurdish issue. I have supported the Kurds.
There have been reports that you will grant Saddam's family shelter.
Neither he nor his family will leave Iraq. He will stay if anyone comes to attack his country. America has the military capability so there is no safe haven anywhere.
What's your opinion of [Osama] bin Laden?
I don't agree with him, but in the Islamic world today, bin Laden has become a prophet, and all the young people like him.
There have been assassination attempts on you in the past, isn't that so?
Yes. These were made by al Qaeda members from bin Laden groups.
Is Saudi Arabia doing all it can to fight terrorism?
Saudi Arabia is a fundamentalist state, itself.
Are you providing U.S. and other intelligence agencies with information on al Qaeda?
Intelligence agencies in Libya and in the U.S. are exchanging information. There are Libyan terrorists in America and in Britain. Before September 11, the American intelligence service did not realize that they were terrorists. They projected themselves as just opponents of Gaddafi, but they are members of the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamic extremist groups. Now through cooperation between the respective agencies, both the U.S. and Britain have discovered the truth.
Your son said recently that Libya should reconsider its cooperation with the West on al Qaeda. Do you agree?
No, our cooperation in fighting terrorism is irrevocable. It's a must.
Are they operating here?
Libyans were coming from Afghanistan to perform operations against us.
Will there be another attack on the U.S.?
If they can, they will not hesitate. Bin Laden has convinced his followers that America is attacking the whole Arab and Islamic world. He said in the beginning that America's objective was not only Afghanistan. Now that there is a move against Iraq, it has proven bin Laden right. When the U.S. talks about Libya, Saudi Arabia and Syria, bin Laden says, "You see I was correct." This has led the whole Islamic world to be united against the American campaign. . . .
I want to give advice to America. The American policy should be reviewed. The U.S. is spreading its military bases all over, which makes it easy for bin Laden to hit American interests.
What advice do you have for Saddam?
Injustice is being done to Saddam. He was wrong to invade Kuwait. He opened his country for full inspections. What more can he do? Now it's a fight to the finish. He must stand against the wall and fight.
Reportedly, you once said there should be a two-state solution in the Middle East. How do you see the future of Israel and the Palestinians?
There should be one state to solve the problem. It is impossible to have two states in that part of the world.
Does that mean the end of Israel?
What is Israel? Are you talking about Jews, or the country? If you mean the Jews, their security is [guaranteed by] having one state with the Palestinians. If you are talking about a state called Israel and you are concerned about the name, it means sacrificing the safety of the Jews. The Palestinians and the Israelis must live together -- one people, one state.
What is your hope for future Libyan-U.S. relations?
I am optimistic. There are so many American companies eager to come here -- whether in oil or other sectors. During the time of wars of liberation, we waged war. Now it is time for peace, and I want to be part of world peace.
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