-Caveat Lector-
3/20/2003 5:06:55 PM, Ray Boeche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>No, you see, I, like George Bush, your Great Satan, am a Christian.
>
>In fact, I'm a priest in the Reformed Episcopal Church (that's the one
>that actually believes in the Bible as God's Word, and states
>emphatically that homosexuality is a sin against God, not a "lifestyle
>choice" as those who are being led and encouraged to defy God like to
>say.)
Let us all take pause here and review Matthew 6, especially verse 5. And, I
don't recollect anywhere in the Bible as G*d's Word where it says anything
about "reformed" "Episcopal [English Catholix]" or "church [as in hierarchal
standardisations like "priest"]. As I recall, the Jesusians were pretty
democratically mentored.
As far as some persons' attitudes about Senator Byrd (where this all got
started and I am gratified that such criticism of the Senator comes from
such charitable company), we can also review the following to determine
who's age (and recall Rumsfeld is a former Reaganista {is memory
debilitation/selectivity contagious?}) is the greater threat:
http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_issues/byrd_iraqi_bioweapons/byrd_armedsvc
_sept19/byrd_armedsvc_sept19.html
Transcript from the Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing
September 19, 2002
SENATOR BYRD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding these hearings.
Mr. Secretary, to your knowledge, did the United States help Iraq to
acquire the building blocks of biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq War?
Are we, in fact, now facing the possibility of reaping what we have sown?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: Certainly not to my knowledge. I have no knowledge
of United States companies or government being involved in assisting Iraq
develop chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.
SENATOR BYRD: Mr. Secretary, let me read to you from the September 23,
2002, Newsweek story. I read this, I read excerpts, because my time is
limited.
"Some Reagan officials even saw Saddam as another Anwar Sadat, capable
of making Iraq into a modern secular state, just as Sadat had tried to lift
up Egypt before his assassination in 1981. But Saddam had to be rescued
first. The war against Iran was going badly by 1982."
"Iran's human-wave attacks threatened to overrun Saddam's armies.
Washington decided to give Iraq a helping hand. After Rumsfeld's visit to
Baghdad in 1983, U.S. intelligence began supplying the Iraqi dictator with
satellite photos showing Iranian deployments.
"Official documents suggest that America may also have secretly arranged
for tanks and other military hardware to be shipped to Iraq in a swap deal:
American tanks to Egypt, Egyptian tanks to Iraq.
"Over the protest of some Pentagon skeptics, the Reagan administration
began allowing the Iraqis to buy a wide variety of 'dual-use,' equipment and
materials from American suppliers.
"According to confidential Commerce Department export control
documents obtained by Newsweek, the shopping list included a
computerized database for Saddam's Interior Ministry, presumably to help
keep track of political opponents, helicopters to help transport Iraqi
officials, television cameras for video surveillance applications, chemical
analysis equipment for the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission, IAEC, and, most
unsettling, numerous shipments of the bacteria, fungi, protozoa to the
IAEC.
"According to former officials the bacterial cultures could be used to make
biological weapons, including anthrax. The State Department also approved
the shipment of 1.5 million atropine injectors for use against the effects of
chemical weapons but the Pentagon blocked the sale.
"The helicopters, some American officials later surmised, were used to
spray poison gas on the Kurds. The United States almost certainly knew
from its own satellite imagery that Saddam was using chemical weapons
against Iranian troops.
"When Saddam bombed Kurdish rebels and civilians with a lethal cocktail of
mustard gas, sarin, tabun and VX in 1988, the Reagan administration first
blamed Iran before acknowledging, under pressure from congressional
Democrats, that the culprit were Saddam's own forces. There was only
token official protest at the time. Saddam's men were unfazed.
An Iraqi audiotape later captured by the Kurds records Saddam's cousin,
Ali Hassan al-Majid, known as Ali Chemical, talking to his fellow officers
about gassing the Kurds. 'Who is going to say anything?' he asks, 'the
international community? F-blank them!'"
Now can this possibly be true? We already knew that Saddam was
dangerous man at the time. I realize that you were not in public office at
the time, but you were dispatched to Iraq by President Reagan to talk
about the need to improve relations between Iraq and the U.S.
Let me ask you again: To your knowledge did the United States help Iraq
to acquire the building blocks of biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq
war? Are we, in fact, now facing the possibility of reaping what we have
sown?
The Washington Post reported this morning that the United States is
stepping away from efforts to strengthen the Biological Weapons
Convention. I'll have a question on that later.
Let me ask you again: Did the United States help Iraq to acquire the
building blocks of biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq War? Are we, in
fact, now facing the possibility of reaping what we have sown?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: I have not read the article. As you suggest, I was,
for a period in late '83 and early '84, asked by President Reagan to serve as
Middle East envoy after the Marines -- 241 Marines were killed in Beirut.
As part of my responsibilities I did visit Baghdad. I did meet with Mr. Tariq
Aziz. And I did meet with Saddam Hussein and spent some time visiting with
them about the war they were engaged in with Iran. At the time our
concern, of course, was Syria and Syria's role in Lebanon and Lebanon's
role in the Middle East and the terrorist acts that were taking place.
As a private citizen I was assisting only for a period of months. I have never
heard anything like what you've read, I have no knowledge of it
whatsoever, and I doubt it.
SENATOR BYRD: You doubt what?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: The questions you posed as to whether the United
States of America assisted Iraq with the elements that you listed in your
reading of Newsweek and that we could conceivably now be reaping what
we've sown. I think--I doubt both.
SENATOR BYRD: Are you surprised that this is what I've said? Are you
surprised at this story in Newsweek?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: I guess I'm at an age and circumstance in life where
I'm no longer surprised about what I hear in the newspapers.
SENATOR BYRD: That's not the question. I'm of that age, too. Somewhat
older than you, but how about that story I've read?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: I see stories all the time that are flat wrong. I just
don't know. All I can say...
SENATOR BYRD: How about this story? This story? How about this story,
specifically?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: As I say, I have not read it, I listened carefully to
what you said and I doubt it.
SENATOR BYRD: All right.
Now the Washington Post reported this morning that the United States is
stepping away from efforts to strengthen the Biological Weapons
Convention. Are we not sending exactly the wrong signal to the world, at
exactly the wrong time? Doesn't this damage our credibility in the
international community at the very time that we are seeking their support
to neutralize the threat of Iraq's biological weapons program? If we
supplied, as the Newsweek article said, if we supplied the building blocks
for germ and chemical warfare to this madman in the first place, this
psychopath, how do we look to the world to be backing away from this
effort to control it at this point?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: Senator, I think it would be a shame to leave this
committee and the people listening with the impression that the United
States assisted Iraq with chemical or biological weapons in the 1980s. I just
do not believe that's the case.
SENATOR BYRD: Well, are you saying that the Newsweek article is
inaccurate?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: I'm saying precisely what I said, that I didn't read
the Newsweek article, but that I doubt its accurate.
SENATOR BYRD: I'll be glad to send you up a copy.
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: But that I was not in government at that time,
except as a special envoy for a period of months. So one ought not to rely
on me as the best source as to what happened in that mid-'80s period that
you were describing.
I will say one other thing. On two occasions I believe when you read that
article, you mentioned the IAEC, which as I recall is the International
Atomic Energy Commission, and mentioned that if some of the things that
you were talking about were provided to them, which I found quite
confusing to be honest.
With respect to the Biological Weapons Convention, I was not aware that
the United States government had taken a position with respect to it. It's
not surprising because it's a matter for the Department of State, not the
Department of Defense. If in fact they have indicated, as The Washington
Post reports, that they are not going to move forward with a -- I believe
it's an enforcement regime, it's not my place to discuss the administration's
position when I don't know what it is.
But I can tell you, from a personal standpoint, my recollection is that the
biological convention never, never was anticipated that there would even
be thought of to have an enforcement regime. And that an enforcement
regime on something like that, where there are a lot of countries involved
who are on the terrorist list who were participants in that convention,
that the United States has, over a period of administrations, believed that
it would not be a good idea, because the United States would be a net
loser from an enforcement regime.
But that is not the administration's position. I just don't know what the
administration's position is..
SENATOR LEVIN: We're going to have to leave it there, because you're way
over.
SENATOR BYRD: This is a very important question.
SENATOR LEVIN: It is indeed, and you're over time. I agree with you on the
importance, but you're way over time, sir.
SENATOR BYRD: I know I'm over time, but are we going to leave this in
question out there dangling?
SENATOR LEVIN: One last question.
SENATOR BYRD: I ask unanimous consent that I may have an additional five
minutes.
SENATOR LEVIN: No, I'm afraid you can't do that. If you could just do one
last--well, wait a minute, ask unanimous consent, I can't stop you from
doing that.
SENATOR INHOFE: I object.
SENATOR BYRD: Mr. Chairman?
SENATOR LEVIN: Just one last question. Would that be all right so you
could wind that up? Senator Byrd, if you could just take one additional
question.
SENATOR BYRD: I've never -- I've been in this Congress 50 years. I've never
objected to another senator having a few additional minutes. Now Mr.
Chairman, I think that the secretary should have a copy of this report, this
story that -- from Newsweek that I've been querying him about. I think he
has a right to look at that.
SENATOR LEVIN: Could somebody take that out to the secretary?
SENATOR BYRD: Now, while that's being given to the Secretary, Mr.
Secretary, I think we're put into an extremely bad position before the
world today if we're going to walk away from an international effort to
strengthen the Biological Weapons Convention against germ warfare,
advising its allies that the U.S. wants to delay further discussions until
2006. Especially in the light of the Newsweek story; I think we bear some
responsibility.
SENATOR INHOFE: Mr. Chairman I ask for a point of order.
SENATOR LEVIN: Can we just have this be the last question, if you would
just go along with us please, Senator Inhofe?
SENATOR INHOFE: I'll only say though, in all respect to the Senator from
West Virginia, we have a number of senators here. We have a limited time
of six minutes each, and we're entitled to have our six minutes. That
should be a short question if it's the last question.
SENATOR LEVIN: If we could just make that the last question and answer, I
would appreciate it. The chair would appreciate the cooperation of all
senators. Secretary Rumsfeld, could you answer that question please?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: I'll do my best. Senator, I just in glancing at this,
and I hesitate to do this because I have not read it carefully.
But it says here that, ``According to confidential Commerce Department
export control documents obtained by Newsweek, the shopping list
included.'' It did not say that there were deliveries of these things. It said
that Iran -- Iraq asked for these things. It talks about a shopping list.
Second, in listing these things, it says that they wanted television cameras
for video surveillance applications, chemical analysis equipment for the
Iraq Atomic Energy Commission, the IAEC -- and that may very well be the
Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission, which would be -- mean that my earlier
comment would not be correct, because I thought it was the International
Atomic Energy Commission. But this seems to indicate it's the Iraq
Commerce Commission.
SENATOR BYRD: Mr. Chairman, may I say to my friend from Oklahoma, I'm
amazed that he himself wouldn't yield me time for this important question.
I would do the same for him.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask...
SENATOR CLELAND: I yield my five minutes, Senator.
SENATOR BYRD: I thank the distinguished senator. Mr. Chairman, I would
like to ask the Secretary -- and I don't just like to ask him -- I asked him to
review Pentagon records to see if the Newsweek article is true or not. Will
the Secretary do that?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: It appears that they're Department of Commerce
records, as opposed to Pentagon. But I can certainly ask that the
Department of Commerce and, to the extent that it's relevant, the
Department of State, look into it and see if we can't determine the
accuracy or inaccuracy of some aspects of this. Yes, sir.
SENATOR LEVIN: And we go one step further than that. I think the request
is that the Defense Department search its records. Will you do that?
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: We'll be happy to search ours, but this refers to the
Commerce Department.
SENATOR LEVIN: We will ask the State Department and the Commerce
Department to do the same thing.
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: We'd be happy to.
SENATOR LEVIN: And we will also ask the Intelligence Committee to stage a
briefing for all of us on that issue, so that Senator Byrd's question...
SENATOR BYRD: Mr. Chairman, I thank the chairman.
SENATOR LEVIN: Thank you very much, Senator.
SENATOR BYRD: I thank the Secretary.
SECRETARY RUMSFELD: Thank you.
SENATOR LEVIN: Senator Byrd, we will ask Senator Graham and Senator
Shelby to hold a briefing on that subject, because it is a very important
subject.
SENATOR BYRD: I thank the chairman.
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