-Caveat Lector-
MJ wrote:
A totalitarian state thrives on propaganda, and there
is no more effective way to limit thought than to
control the language itself. By changing definitions
of words through continual association, any serious
discussion involving the concepts that the words
represents becomes hopelessly muddled.
The words 'democracy', 'hate' and 'racism' immediately
comes to mind. -- Thomas Sowell >>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This, I believe to be true, but I also think that Facism, hate
and racism also go together.
MJ:
Hmmm ...
fascism (fàsh´îz´em) noun
A system of government marked by centralization of authority
under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression
of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically
a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
racism (râ´sîz´em) noun
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character
or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
hate (hât) verb
To feel hostility or animosity toward, To detest.
MJ:
<<Laissez faire capitalism means the complete separation of economy
and state, just like the separation of church and state. Capitalism
is the social system based upon private ownership of the means
of production which entails a completely uncontrolled and unregulated
economy where all land is privately owned. But the separation of
the state and the economy is not a primary, it is only an aspect of
the premise that capitalism is based upon: individual rights.
Capitalism is the only politico-economic system based on the
doctrine of individual rights. This means that capitalism
recognizes that each and every person is the owner of his own
life, and has the right to live his life in any manner he chooses
as long as he does not violate the rights of others.>>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Our country would be better off if we had a capatalist system such
as this, but as you stated before... words change through constant
association. Capitalism now is the subjugation of the poor by the
rich in reality, mostly through the granting of charters to
corporations. Corporations are not formed for the public good as
they were supposed to be, but are formed to make the rich even
richer through manipulating government laws.
MJ:
My POINT was that what *you* identify (but more pertinent -- what the
'indictor' of Capitalism was positing) is NOT capitalism, but something
else.
America -- though not explicitly stated -- is idealically to be
as identified above, but the Government has usurped additional
powers not so granted AND utilized its ability for the 'legalized'
use of FORCE to wield havoc.
MJ:
The essential nature of capitalism is social harmony through
the pursuit of self-interest. Under capitalism, the
individual's pursuit of his own economic self-interest
simultaneously benefits the economic self-interests of all
others. In allowing each individual to act unhampered by
government regulations, capitalism causes wealth to be
created in the most efficient manner possible which ultimately
raises the standard of living, increases the economic
opportunities, and makes available an ever growing supply
of products for everyone.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From what I have seen in my lifetime, capitalism mostly raises
the standard of living for those who already have a high standard
of living, and there is very little "trickle down" to the common
person who does the labor in the rich man's factory. An "ever
growing" supply of products does no good for someone who cannot
afford to buy them. If the business owners did share the wealth
with the workers, that would be equitable, but I think, unrealistic
by what I've seen so far.
MJ:
America has NOT a capitalist economy, but a mixed economy.
As to your concerns ... look at the 'imaginary' poverty figures
and notice how many 'poor' persons have automobiles, air conditiong,
televisions, etc. :)
MJ:
The free-market operates in such a way so that as one man
creates more wealth for himself, he simultaneously creates
more wealth for everyone, which means that as the rich become
richer, the poor become richer too. It must be understood that
capitalism serves the economic self-interests of all, including
the non-capitalists.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Could you explain in more detail how a man who creates more
wealth for himself will simultaneously create more wealth for
everyone? (Not trying to be sarcastic, just interested in your
theory)
MJ:
Look at Bill Gates. How many persons did/does *he* employ in his
'quest'? How many have become 'millionaires'? How many people
now have home computers? ... for instance.
Look at Rockefeller who CONTRARY to myth, made great strides in
oil refining, lowered oil prices, created a 'boom' in competititon
AND accomplished similar results to that of Gates.
MJ:
Contrary to widely held beliefs, capitalism is not a system
which exploits a large portion of society for the sake of a
small minority of wealthy capitalists.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unfortunately that is just what this system is doing right now.
I see that it is also not a pure capitalist system, an element
of socialism is there... in a big way.
MJ:
I would argue that our current system is MORE statist than free.
MJ:
Ironically, it is actually socialism that causes the systematic
exploitation of labor. Since the socialist state holds a
universal monopoly on labor and production, no economic
incentive exists for the socialist state to provide anything
more than minimum physical subsistence for the workers except
to perhaps prevent riots or revolutions.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This may depend on the leaders of such a system. If they/he/she
want to be popular and stay in office (provided it is an elected
office) it would be in their/her/his best interest to increase
production, make the business more productive, pay more wages to
the workers. Actually I can see no reason why the leader would
not want everyone to be well off finacially, nothing to lose
and everything to gain.
MJ:
Why?
Who is easier to wield P-O-W-E-R over?
Is it not simpler to 'buy votes' by creating Social Security, doling
welfare to corporations, pork barrel spending projects, etc. ... all
which are not empowered within the Constitution?
MJ:
Exploitation is inherent to the nature of socialism because
individuals cannot exist for their own sake, rather, they
exist merely as means to whatever ends the socialist
rulers -- the self-proclaimed spokesman of "society,"
may have in mind.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This could very well be the case if the rulers were not elected.
MJ:
We have ELECTED rulers NOW -- one's who are supposed to be CHAINED
to limitations of a Constitution -- who rule by whim.
MJ:
Capitalism undoubtedly has certain boils and blotches
upon it, but has it as many as government? Has it as
many as marriage? Has it as many as religion? I doubt
it. It is the only basic institution of modern man
that shows any genuine health and vigor.
-- H. L. Menken
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Government and capitalism do not mix as we now have a system of
just that with the corporations controlling most of the populace
and the government. As I said before there is an element of
socialism in our society also, and it becomes very muddled as
to which is gaining ground/which is losing ground.
MJ:
Not very muddled ... look at the ever increasing tax burden,
regulations, nanny-laws, etcetera
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a
lack of belief in freedom itself. -- Milton Friedman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The way I see it is that the "free market" that Clinton and
his followers are trying to lead us to, is not, in fact, a
free market at all. It seems to me to be a Fascist movement
where the corporations, which are privately owned will have
access to very cheap labor resulting in the corporations
making more money, and not sharing their good fortune with
the workers. I can also see that it is a socialistic movement
in that, it works to bring down our economy to that of a third
world nation, making a large rift between the rich and the
poor... A purely socialistic form of government is not supposed
to do this, but we see that the communist/socialist regimes of
eastern Europe have actually widened the gap between rich and
poor to the point where the poor are nearly starving and the
rich have an abundance of everything, including power. These
are both Statist forms of government which, I believe the
founders of this Republic were trying to avoid. I sincerely
believe that our Constitution was made so that we could be
free to do what we want as long as it doesn't infringe upon
the rights of others. Lawyers, judges, legislatures,
presidents, etc.... all lawyers have perverted the Constitution
and the plainly written words of it.
MJ:
True.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Your redefining capitalism idea is a good idea, maybe the
original idea, but how many laws would it take to keep it
like that, and how could it be perverted into becoming the
system we have today?
MJ:
The MISSING element to our nation: an educated electorate.
It is much simpler to allow the politicians to steal from others
and provide us with imaginary security than it is for one to be
responsible for himself. :)
Regard$,
--MJ
Several major turning points mark the reversal of this [Constitutional
enumerated powers] ethic. The first was the passage in 1913 of the
Sixteenth Amendment, which permitted a federal income tax. This was
the first major tax that was not levied on a proportional or uniform
basis. Hence, it allowed Congress a political free ride: It could
provide government benefits to many by imposing a disproportionately
heavy tax burden on the wealthy. ...
-- Stephen Moore, _Between Power and Liberty_
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