-Caveat Lector- http://www.apbnews.com:80/cjprofessionals/behindthebadge/1999/12/21/chicagoguns1221_01.html Chicago Tells Cops: No Guns in the Box Order Follows Shootout During Interrogation Dec. 21, 1999 By Janet Prasad CHICAGO (APBnews.com) -- Something really scary happened in the Wentworth Area Police Station on Halloween weekend -- and it has led Chicago police to bar cops from carrying guns in some areas in their own stationhouses. On Oct. 30, Reginald Cole, 38, was taken to the South Side police station from an Illinois prison where he was serving a 10-year sentence for armed robbery because investigators wanted to question him about a murder, authorities said. Cole asked the detective if they could talk someplace he could not be overheard, and the officer moved him out of an interrogation room into a small office. That's when Cole grabbed a 7-inch paper spike off a desk and lunged at the detective, then grabbed the officer's gun and fired. The prisoner missed his target, and he turned the gun on himself and fired. At the shot, other officers ran into the room and fired at Cole. Simultaneously, authorities said, Cole fired the officer's gun into his own mouth. The Cook County Medical Examiner's Office ruled Cole's death a suicide. Dec. 3, the department set a new policy -- no guns in interrogation rooms. 'Like putting on a pair of shoes' "It wasn't that there was a policy to wear them, just that there wasn't a policy not to wear them. People just wore them if they felt like it," said a Wentworth detective who asked to remain anonymous. "Some people just had it on because they've been wearing it for so many years ... it's like putting on a pair of shoes." Officers in suburban departments applauded Chicago's decision, saying the safest way to interview a suspect is without a weapon. Sgt. Mike McNamara, a detective in south suburban Park Forest, said his department has had a long-standing policy keeping guns out of interrogations. A bank of lock boxes on the opposite end of the hall from the interview room ensures weapons are secure. Surprised that Chicago did not have the no-weapons policy before, McNamara said he has yet to see a suburban department that does not have a policy regarding weapons in processing areas. "I can understand the thinking that said you'd want to have your gun because these are dangerous people and they might try to attack you. But that's exactly why you wouldn't want to have it with you," McNamara said. New holsters guard against gun grabs A lot of detectives have older holsters that are not equipped with new weapon retention hardware. One flip of a thumb and the suspect could have the gun in his hand before a distracted investigator has time to react. "I've watched videos where the prisoners were practicing disarming officers in a jail yard, spinning the officer around and taking his gun," McNamara said. "You don't want to get lulled into a false sense of security." The Chicago detective agreed. "I think that has to do with complacency. You have to kind of relax when you talk to these people. Sometimes you have got to be friendly to them, sometimes we get complacent," he said. "But that's not saying that that's what happened in this case, where this officer got into trouble." Bob Wallace, a spokesman for the National Association of Police Chiefs and a former police lieutenant in New York state, believes Chicago's decision was a good one. Interviewing a suspect without guns or other weapons not only protects the officer from potential bodily harm, but also eliminates a legal defense tactic for the suspect, he said. Reducing 'interrogation failures' A gun could be perceived as a tool of intimidation, Wallace said, an object that would indirectly coerce a suspect into confessing for fear of his safety. "A suspect could say to his attorney, 'You know, the guy kept walking in front of me and he had this big gun on, so I said what he wanted to hear so I could get out of there,'" Wallace said. "Keeping the guns out could eliminate interrogation failures." Why would an officer want to bring a weapon into a locked interrogation room with a dangerous suspect? It depends on the situation, police said. "Every situation is different, every person is different, every interview is different," said the Chicago detective. "That's why I think a blanket policy isn't good. If you're a female and you've got a big guy in there, you could reasonably think that the guy could do you physical harm." 'Any one of us can be overpowered' Wallace agreed that the decision to bring a weapon in to an interview depends on the suspect. Officers usually are highly aware of the suspect's demeanor and would spot any signs from the suspect indicating a threat. But even with the officer's training factored in, it is possible a suspect could still gain control of the officer's weapon. If desperate enough, suspects will pursue any avenue to escape, regardless of how remote the possibility is, police said. "It could happen, it has happened. The potential is there. Any one of us can be overpowered," the Chicago detective said. "A lot of times (the suspect's) motivation to escape is stronger than our motivation to catch them. Maybe he's thinking, 'I've already been in jail for murder, I'm here, they know I did it, maybe this is my one shot to get out of here.'" Janet Prasad is an APBnews.com correspondent. -- ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ----------------------- DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. 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