-Caveat Lector-
BF>Granted, I have studied comparative religion enough to understand that, yes,
Christianity has HISTORICALLY been more focused on this issue than Judaism. I also
understand the interplay between Zorasterian thought and Christian thought on this
issue. I also understand the monotheistic nature of Jewish thought, and how it
frowns on dualism.
However, please remember that the New Testament does not really speak of
"worshippers" of Satan in a direct sense either. Come to think of it, the New
Testament does not speak of inverted pentragrams, et al. Most of these are cultural
traditions within Christendom from afterwards, acknowledged by Jewish and Muslim
authorities. Yes, Jewish authorities do not DWELL on them. That does not mean that
the existence of Satanism is not acknowledged. It is acknowledged by Rabbinical
authorities. "Path of the Righteous Gentile", written by an Orthodox Rabbi, makes
mention of Satanic music. The Book of Job makes mention of Satan. Nor does
Buddhism disagree that there is a pull back in to spiritual illusion. Yes, again we
have a difference in philosophy and emphasis between religions, but not a
disagreement about a phenomenon.
Having said all of this, it gets off the point. You are welcome to label
Satanism "Christian", or anything you want. It is, however, a reality. One ignores
it at one's peril. Again, I need to get back to the main point, and I will leave
the Judaism-Christianity issue to you folks. The main point is that this symbol is
there, and I believe that it should not be. Even if we went along with those who
say it is not Satanic, a position I doubt highly, then why should it be hidden and
never acknowledged? The Washington Monument obelisk is public. The other "hidden
architecture" dwelt on by Ovason is largely acknowledged by the American public, and
apparently blessed by those among the Protestant clergy who talk about a "Christian
nation". The pentagram is kept secret, and never acknoweldged. I do not believe
that we should have symbols, which do have an effect, secret and hidden like that.
The fact that I consider it Satanic makes it even more disconcerting to me.
Why not replace it with the Star of David, along with some acknowledgement of
the Seven Noachide Laws? The first Bush Administration upheld the Seven Noachide
Laws as fundamental to American civilization. I am certainly not a G. H. W. Bush
fan, but that is beside the point. They were right to do this, in my view, as much
as I have First Amendment qualms with public religion. The Star of David would be a
fine symbol, and also symmetrical, not able to be inverted. It is non-dual in this
regard.
I do not mean to "punk out", but I am busy and did not expect this much
traffic. Therefore if I do not respond to every e-mail I will at least endeaver to
read them and take note of them. To recap, the differences between religions in any
understanding of evil are more cultural and philosophical than substantive. They
are often innane nitpicking. The actual reality is acknowledged by all. If we want
to call something an "evil inclination", then go ahead. A rose by another name...I
will leave this one to the list. I will debate the main point, should we have a
symbol like this above the White House where it can influence government away from
the values most Americans have traditionally held dear? Do symbols have power? Am
I reading a symbol where there is none? No one has claimed that so far. Did the
Catholic Church simply invent this whole thing to repress science and freedom, as
has been alleged by some? I think that there has been the role of authoritarian
religion, but I also think that just as there is a real "good inclination" with
power, so there is an "evil inclination" with its own power and very real symbols.
I tend to leave the Freemasons out of this because to some extent Rome will dwell on
them while ignoring its own incorporation of Roman religion.
These issues are more important than the standard defenses from the educated
employed against seeing reality. Jews say I am Christian, Nazis say I am Jewish.
Debate this all you want. Do we really want to wait for another school shooting
before helping to cleanse this land from evil? Are abstractions really worth
another child's life? Let us stay on the point.
MHO
Bates
thew wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> as I stated before
> there is a Satan figure in job, but he is NOT the same Satan as in
> Christianity - he did not have followers and worshippers, he was not seen as
> the great evil one, he did not fill ANY of the mythological roles filled by
> Satan in Christianity.
>
> in Hebrew Satan means "accuser" and that is his role in Job - to accuse god.
> That's it. no prince of lies, father of evil, dweller in darkness shit.
>
> there is an etymological and historical relationship between the creation /
> naming of the character in the book of job, and the Christian prince of
> darkness, but that does not mean they are the same.
> ............................................................................
> ....................................................
> "It is not the function of our government to keep the
> citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen
> to keep the government from falling into error."
>
> Justice Robert H. Jackson
>
> NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
>
> > From: Man on the Run <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:55:55 -0800
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
> >
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> BF>I refer the reader to the Book of Job.
> >> Bates
> >>
> >> Nurev Ind wrote:
> >>
> >>> -Caveat Lector-
> >>>
> >>> Man on the Run wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> -Caveat Lector-
> >>>>
> >>>> BF>With due respect, Christians did not invent "Satan". Pre-Christian
> >>>> Israelite
> >>>> texts, both Mesoretic and those not included in the Hebrew Bible, have
> >>>> mentioned
> >>>> the concept of the Satan. Islam has also invoked the concept. This
> >>>> concept also
> >>>> exists in other religions than those of the Abrahamic faith. You are free
> >>>> to
> >>>> disagree with me, but please be accurate.
> >>>> Bates
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Satan is Christian. It is not Jewish at all though there may be discussions
> >>> of
> >>> such a concept. In those days before science and rationalism, almost
> >>> everyone's
> >>> world view was superstitious nonsense.
> >>>
> >>> Satan is the other major component of Christian Dualism which is based in
> >>> GREEK, not Judaic culture. Jesus is the all good god of goodness, and Satan
> >>> is
> >>> the all bad god of evil. Y'know... good cop, bad cop.
> >>>
> >>> Thew is right to say that in order to take Satanism seriously, you must come
> >>> from a Christian superstitious mindset.
> >>>
> >>> Islam incorporated many ideas from both Judaism and Christianity. That's
> >>> why that have a Shaytan.
> >>>
> >>> Dualism is the simplest form of complexity. Philosophy light ( as in not
> >>> heavy ).
> >>> Read " Dualism for Dummies " by Abbot and Costello. It's only two pages.
> >>>
> >>> Joshua2
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> thew wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> -Caveat Lector-
> >>>>>
> >>>>> just the concept "satanic" is a Christian concept. To think someone might
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> a Satanist, you must first accept the belief system that Satan exists in.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Satanism is a Christian sect ,perhaps a very fringe one, but a Christian
> >>>>> sect none the less.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I don't believe in Satan, calling me a Satanist doesn't have much
> >>>>> meaning.
> >>>>> -- ------------ ------------- ----------- --------------
> >>>>> -------------------
> >>>>> ------------------
> >>>>> Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire,
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> left to irresponsible action.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> George Washington
> >>>>>
> >>>>> NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: "c." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>>> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>>> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:55:22 -0000
> >>>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The inverted pentagram is an agreed upon Satanic symbol used by
> >>>>>> Satanists as
> >>>>>>> such.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> satanists... hmm... anyone that doesn't belief that your christ chap is
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> son of god?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A>
> >>>>> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
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> >>>>> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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> >>>> ==========
> >>>> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
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> >>>
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> >>> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> >>> ==========
> >>> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
> >>> propagandic
> >>> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are
> >>> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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> >>> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> >>> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> >>> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> >>> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
> >>>
> >>> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==========
> > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are
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> > directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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> > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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> > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
> >
> > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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>
> <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==========
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ========================================================================
> Archives Available at:
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> Om
<A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A>
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
<A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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