Hi Everybody,
Depending on the interpretation of ripe-508, email addresses might
already be a mandatory but unenforced part of PERSON objects.
In the context of Internet number resources, the policy states:
> In case the Status is either "Allocated" or "Legacy", the following
information is also mandatory:
[…]
> Contact information for matters of an administrative nature, and for
matters of a technical nature. This information consists of an email
address and a telephone number
I read this as "The mandatory attributes admin-c and tech-c must have an
email address and telephone number."
The backend allows referencing a PERSON object not containing an email
address as well as a ROLE object that does not include a phone number
for these two attributes, which would make a policy violation possible
by my interpretation.
Edward has looked through the RIPE policies behind the scenes and did
not find any other policy that would need changes because of this change.
I might be misunderstanding this and would love to hear additional input
from the community on this matter.
Assuming I did not misunderstand, this would make a policy change
unnecessary to proceed. Please correct me in case I misunderstood.
Regardless of the topic above, changing about a million PERSON objects
is not a small task. I, personally, agree with Ed here. I do not see a
way of implementing this without a gradual multi-step plan, if at all
possible.
I am more than happy to allocate time for this in the RIPE 91 agenda or
start planning another interim working group session to discuss this
issue further.
Best regards,
David
DB-WG Chair
On 9/19/25 9:42 AM, Edward Shryane wrote:
Dear colleagues,
On 18 Sep 2025, at 14:41, denis walker<[email protected]> wrote:
Colleagues
I guess no one has an opinion on any of this. You are happy to continue with an
NWI to create an unenforceable mandatory email address. You don't see any
problems adding a new mandatory attribute across, potentially, millions of
objects. And you are all OK to continue adding and maintaining an existing
mandatory email in millions of objects, even though none of you have any idea
what that attribute means. I don't think anyone has time to consider RIPE
Database issues any more. As long as it still, just about, works then leave it
alone. Well good luck with this project. You will need it if you go ahead with
it.
cheers
denis
The DB team are working on a Solution Definition for NWI-20 and I'd like some
feedback on the points that Denis has rasied before we proceed further.
Firstly, do we need to use the Policy Development Process to make e-mail
mandatory on person objects? E-mail is already mandatory on organisation and
role but not on person. I couldn't find a reason for this inconsistency in
existing policies, or any requirement to make it so.
Secondly, do we need to cleanup existing person objects if e-mail is changed to
be mandatory? Half of the existing 2 million person objects do not have an
e-mail attribute. It seems unlikely that maintainers will add e-mail
retrospectively. We could add validation to require e-mail only when person
objects are updated, however most person objects are created and never updated
again. We could add validation to require e-mail when a person is added as a
contact on another object, however most exising persons are referenced from a
single assignment and then never referenced again.
Thirdly, should mandatory e-mail remain part of NWI-20, in addition to creating
new contact types? Multiple people in this thread have asked for it, but
perhaps the changes can be made in phases, and the wider issues that Denis has
raised can be tackled separately.
Regards
Ed Shryane
RIPE NCC
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