On Thu, 9 Oct 2014, Ray Andrews wrote:
From what I've read about the history and philosophy of all 'nix, I thought it was a bedrock rule that primary inputs and outputs *must* be text. Especially any sort of error log! To abandon that is to travel down the road to Redmond, is it not? Mr. Poettering seems to be a very clever lad, and it seems that some real deficiencies in the old init have been identified, and some real solutions offered, but it looks to me like systemd needs a sober re-think. Sometimes we really can be too clever for our own good.
I could not write it any better than this, I agree with every word. Also, I have the same very annoying behaviour on several machines that shutdown hangs forever (or for a very long time), and in the end I frequently end up pushing the power button. This began to happen with systemd, and it is horribly difficult to debug: shutdown hangs after syslog was stopped, so the only way to get some decent debug info is (would have been in SystemV times) have the scripts dump a lot of info in text files, and then read them. Now, with systemd, how do you go about debugging this? I second this: systemd has some good points, but the price tag is unreasonably high. And, most importantly, there should be some real choice, it should not be as deeply embedded as a dependency into many completely unrelated things: what does a desktop environment have to do with the init system? why on earth should gnome or any other desktop environment depend on systemd and be somewhat broken, or even uninstallable, without it? Had I wanted this kind of overclever stuff, in which everything "magically" (sort of) works but at the price of being a nightmare to customize/debug, I would have installed ubuntu, not debian! Pretty please... Giacomo -- _________________________________________________________________ Giacomo Mulas <gmu...@oa-cagliari.inaf.it> _________________________________________________________________ INAF - Osservatorio Astronomico di Cagliari via della scienza 5 - 09047 Selargius (CA) tel. +39 070 71180244 mob. : +39 329 6603810 _________________________________________________________________ "When the storms are raging around you, stay right where you are" (Freddy Mercury) _________________________________________________________________ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-amd64-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.2.11.1410091735420.17...@capitanata.oa-cagliari.inaf.it