On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 11:33:23PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 11:24:34AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > There is *NO* technical reason which warrant his action, and the only reason > > he does it is to humiliate and punish me. > > You're the only one here who thinks that's a punishment, let alone > "humiliating". If you would like to setup your own subversion repository > and humiliate or punish Frans by not giving him access to it, you're > welcome to do so.
And what has that to do with anything ? I have no interest in going into this hate-game, i want the situation solved, and be able to commit as any normal DD would. > Personally, I don't think Frans would care about that because I don't > think he would see it as punishment or humiliation; but then, I don't > think you should see not having access to the d-i subversion that way > either. I don't have access to it either, and I don't think that makes > me worse as a person. Ok, so why did your mediation process basically support Frans in this ? > The only time someone's been had their commit access revoked from a > project before that I can think of was Daniel Stone when he uploaded X 4.3 > to unstable. In the end, it's just the svn admin's call who gets access > and who doesn't, and there really isn't anything more to it than that. Yes, but you notice that this was over a technical mistake, while here it is to make a point in a ugly social dispute where neither side is innocent. You as mediator should not have favored one side over the other, and let the situation degenerate in hope that it will be forgotten, this never works. > > And, how long will it last ? how long will frans reject any effort i make, > > and > > spring about the most minor of comments ? > > However much effort you've put in, the only result has been to > continuously demand that Frans give you access again, or that someone > else make Frans give you access. No, i was pointing out how ridiculous the situation is, because it is ridiculous. If Frans isn't able to take such comments, he has no place to take the decision to kick me out. He did it, only he is takign that decision, and you all support him either vocally or silently, and thus the responsability of this mess is exclusively his. > > No, i don't need to regain Frans's thrust, > > Please, the word is "trust". No "h". Or use the word "confidence", > it's near enough in meaning, and similar in French iirc. Yeah, i never know, and Steve already mentioned this to me. > And while you're certainly correct that you'll never regain his trust > if you keep acting the way you have been, it's entirely your choice to > act that way, and hence no one's fault but your own. Ah, yes ? And do you not think that it is perfectly possible to work together even if you have a private dislike of someone ? Its called professionalism to not let one's private dislike step onto the job being done, and Frans clearly is letting his private hatefullness overstep his technical responsabilities, and you as DPL and mediator should not let it happen. > > And the longer this issue lingers unsolved, the worse it becomes. > > The issue is already resolved, you're just refusing to accept it. No, it is not solved, or we would not have this conversation. > > You would not accept this, there is enough > > people throwing insults at me on irc, or engaging in random stuborn > > flamewars > > in debian, that there is no right for you or anyone to suggest that i should > > be submitted to it. > > In February and March, I did the work that was blocking amd64 getting into > main -- that ended up including restructuring the way mirrors worked, > getting apt updated to work, making some patches to dak, and had to be > followed up by some a fair bit of time helping the release managers > nudge amd64 into testing. Had I been doing that my way, I probably > would have ignored the mirror changes, left the updated apt for ages, > and pushed amd64 into testing in a much quicker (and more broken) way -- > but that's not the way we're setup: James and Ryan are also ftpmasters, > so their views on mirroring and how the ftp site is setup have to be > taken into account, and Steve and Andy's views on what happens to etch > likewise trump mine. So even though what they wanted was more work, and > not really terribly exciting for me, that's what ended up happening: just > as I want them to listen to my concerns when they do things, I make sure I > listen to their concerns when they do things. So ? > And as far as insults on IRC, I've had a frontpage slashdot story the > other week with anonymous commenters calling me a "control freak" and > similar (and getting modded up to +5, Interesting for it) and another > article on distrowatch calling me "hot headed". So, please don't imagine > it's pitchforks for you, and roses and bunnies for the rest of us. No, but then i was blamed for doing it, so, two weights, two mesures, and it is perfectly right for others to insult me, but we have to spare Frans feeling because he is incapable of disosiating them from the work that needs done and the good of debian ? > When you say that other people wouldn't submit to what you've been > through, you're simply wrong. That's not to say that you have to put up > with it -- you're a volunteer, so if you don't want to put up with it, > you can go elsewhere any time you like, which might mean working on > d-i in a different repository, working on a different part of Debian, > working on a Debian derivative instead of Debian, or ending your work > on Debian entirely. And while you might not appreciate it, we will be > sad to see you go, but it's still completely your choice. Yeah, but that doesn't solve the issue. Why don't you speak with Frans, and explain to him that he should not act like that, and not let his private hatefullness impede on the debian work ? If i would be doing what he did, i can bet you that you would not take this discourse. > What isn't your choice, though, is whether anyone else in the project > wants to work with you. If they don't, they're volunteers too, and they > don't have to. If you aren't willing to accept that, you will need to > find some way to deal with the consequences. They don't have to work with me, they can ignore me all they want, its pretty easy to do it, but constantly provoking me like frans is doing, and stopping me from doing the job that needs doing in the most efficient way is a step beyond that. > > Maybe. That said, in real life, if someone would have an authority over me > > like the one i mention, [...] > > Frans has no authority over you; simply authority over the d-i subversion > repository. Yeah. So, what should i do ? Fork d-i just so Frans susceptibility gets spared ? How would this help debian ? Hurt, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
