>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Hindley <m...@hindley.org.uk> writes:
Mark> Sam, Since I cannot get a working and robust dpkg-divert Mark> solution, I feel the need to revisit the validity of these Mark> concerns. I'd like to push back on the phrasing here. What i'm hearing is that after spending a couple of weeks exploring ways to meet these concerns, you'd now like to push back on whether they are a good idea in the first place. That seems dismissive both of Julien's concerns and the engineering effort you and others have spent exploring what the valid options are. I agree with you that it's time to go back and revisit whether these concerns are requirements that we can meet. But that's exactly because you've spent time working to address the concerns. In particular: * You have explored and documented why libelogind0 needs to be a different implementation than libsystemd0: while its API and perhaps DBUS interface is the same, its cgroup interface is very different. * You have explored options for maintaining libsystemd0 and libelogind0 co-installable and described problems with those approaches: namely that there is a significant period on every upgrade where libsystemd0 will be used rathen than libelogind. That period will depend on how many packages are being unpacked before triggers get run. I haven't responded to your text because I disagree with your premis. You seemed to be trying to show that no problem could exist. Since the concern raised explicitly included problems caused by our incomplete understanding of what apt's dependency resolver will do, that's a really hard thing to do, and I'd expect that if you went down that path it would involve formal proofs and some model of apt's behavior. Instead, I think you've done the work to argue that you have the best option anyone has come up with. You've explored the other options Simon and Michael have suggested and explained why they won't work. You've worked with the Apt developers to resolve the concrete problem that Simon had with your approach. In your testing you are not able to produce particularly bad situations. I think it is fair to ask Julien as the bug submitter to engage here either by coming up with new options that none of us have explored or by coming up with specific problems. Alternatively it would be reasonable for him to ask someone else who has more time to dedicate to this issue to step in. In general, we expect maintainers to respond to RC bugs within two weeks. I think that in a situation like this it would be reasonable to expect Julien to respond within two weeks as well. However, for your information, DSA is having some significant hardware challenges and I think he is very involved in that. I'd recommend being very receptive to a specific request for more time. Assuming no response, I think it would be reasonable for you to close the bug after the timeout arguing that you have considered the issues he brought up, considered alternative designs, and articulated why this is the best option. I won't lie: there are various ways politics can happn at that point. I have a couple roles in this: 1) facilitating communications. 2) I'm an experienced Debian Developer. I'm giving you advice on what is reasonable process in handling an RC bug. I don't have any DPL powers in that regard; other DDs may disagree with me. If you want to double check my recommendations with other developers that wouldn't be bad. If other developers pop up here, considering their input would be a good idea. 3) I cannot review specific Release Team decisions. I do have a role in reviewing whether the release team is using a reasonable process and talking to release team members or release managers when I have concerns about that. Ultimately, I can ask the project to review a release team decision if I think the process is unreasonable. (I have the technical power to ask the project to review a decision in other circumstances, but I would be much more reluctant to use that power in a situation where I thought the process was reasonable than in a situation where I thought it was not.) --Sam