Hi, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz <ti...@debian.org> writes: > It is, as it's the amazing job which Jordi did on bringing good > arguments in favor of GNOME as a default DE (even I'm not really > supporting it).
His personal opinion about whether or not GNOME or XFCE are technically the best choices -- surely. If it is based upon a solid evaluation of both, even more so. His personal opinion about whether or not people *like* one or the other, based upon the existence or non-existence of flamewars -- surely not. At least I sincerely hope, no one takes that the least bit serious. > Anyway, I may not be contributing to the original issue this thread, but > I have to ask you here to avoi being so rude with our users. I apoligize to the part of my second mail where I might have been rude. I do not apologize for asking to justify statements that where made as arguments in a discussion. Claiming, that gnome is not "neutral" and providing as only justification "They made the following decisions I disagree with" is at best a poor choice of words. Claiming that it is common (or "not that uncommon") for people to dislike GNOME 3 and providing as only justification "just google 'GNOME 3 sucks'" may be okay in a bar, but not as an argument to be taken into consideration in a serious discussion. > And dear users, please keep sharing your personal experience with > Debian, even if you are unable to quanti-qualify things in fancy numbers > to please those who don't agree with you. First, I did not ask for "fancy numbers". I asked for *anything*. A ballpark guess, any kind of data that would enable to estimate the ratio of people hating GNOME 3 to the people loving it (for example at least some people have tried interpreting popcon-data for that). I made this more than clear in my first message and I was pretty polite, I think (at least I honestly tried and I am very sorry if I failed there). But as expected, there is no justification whatsoever. Second, I don't disagree with him. I actually have no opinion on gnome vs. xfce, as previously stated, I simply don't care. I only have an opinion on presenting unjustifiable claims as objective arguments in a discussion. I really think, in these kinds of discussions it would be helpfull to get some kind of direct community-feedback. This would help *both* sides in every of these discussions, because it would make it impossible for either side to claim a widely held opinion that can not be refuted easily. For example, if we could have a simple survey "do you prefer the experience of gnome 3 or xfce" which any dev/maintainer/user could fill in, it would make it impossible for gnome-guys to claim it is more modern or preferred by non-technical people (who might not be vocal on -devel, but might very well fill in such a simple survely), if it really isn't. But it would also make it impossible for xfce-supporters (or gnome haters) to claim a wide opposition to the changes of gnome 2 vs. 3, if there is none. Both sides regularly invoke a majority-opinion without providing justification, that just does not work in an argument. Best, Axel Wagner -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87mwbdj547.fsf@rincewind.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me