sorry for using this email but i stopped helping linux years ago(i still donate tho) when the bug systems got outta wack super-geek only usability ...
any ways, do an install with b43 wireless card and don't feed it firmware. this breaks the network and then the updates and then the voltial line in apt sources. in other words if someone attempts to install debian on a laptop its going to be a bitch to get working if they haven't used linux for years. the tail-tell sign is, after the get there system installed synaptic works funny, but works-ish, and if they try apt-get <anything> it fails with a method error sorry but i hate all linux's for what they've become ( i miss old mandrake 7.2 ) and debian was the last hope, now i'm not so sure :-(, automagic is EVIL!
