On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Camaleón <noela...@gmail.com> wrote:
I wanted to say that when you are a linux newbie (we all have been there)
> your main concern is not focused in "freedom" or "stability" but
> understanding how all that stuff works and how can do what you need with
> the less problems, if possible. As times goes by, you start putting
> attention in other things, like the package manager, upgrading procedures
> and/or what the community of your chosen distribution provides :-)
>
You are absolutely correct. I am a newbie and would learn by sparing time
from my other job, for which it could take even two years. I wouls slowly
learn all these things like how upgrading procedures work, why stability is
important, etc..etc..
> And to be sincere, having used openSUSE during 6 years (in both, servers
> and desktop/workstation computers) I find openSUSE to be the perfect
> distribution for linux beginners and newcomers.
>
Thanks for the correct information. 6 years is not a short period to decide,
if you are saying this after 6 years, it is a sufficient and good reason for
openSUSE excellency.
> And you are right: openSUSE is the base (testing "lab") for the paid SuSE
> Linux flavours (SLED and SLES). And this (being the testing lab) has
> "pros" and "cons":
>
Every thing in the universe is having pros and cons. Nothing is perfect (we
know that). If the pros overcome cons, we go for that!
As "cons" I'd say that more than often decisions affecting the system are
> taken based on the upstream needing (SLED and SLES). This happened with
> ZENworks/libzipp, which had to be finally retired completely from the
> openSUSE distribution (the community based distro) while is still being
> used on the SLED/SLES side. It was a total disaster and we had to
> supported for a long time :-/
>
But now not (as you say).
> As "pros" I'd say that openSUSE is an enterpise-grade focused
> distribution, solid as a rock, very well polished in many aspects (and
> not only visually but technically, their YaST tool is unique among its
> species), and you have a set of tools that are not available for any
> other distribution in the same convenient way it is there: you can manage
> LDAP, Samba, iSCSI, AppArmor, Cyrus+Postfix combo, Bind9, almost all your
> hardware, tweaking kernel parameters... and all that run from easy GUI
> based wizards, with a pair of clicks, perfect for novices.
>
However, I have not understood the meanings of all these packages (this is
what people say here), I guess, openSUSE is good to start with. While,
Debian too could be a rock solid, but I don't know why I am going to try
(with a Live CD) both - openSUSE as well as Debian.
A general con with the any Linux distro is that it needs to be learned a
little to get it work perfectly. The general cons with Windows are that it
is highly unsecured, easy to attack and nothing as resourceful as in Linux.
The pros with any Linux system are that these are resistant to any of the
viruses and highly resourceful to get out of these!
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 5:34 PM, francis picabia <fpica...@gmail.com> wrote:
However, if it isn't for production purposes, as I said,
> then anything will do. Get your feet wet. Get a soaker.
> Running various distros is the best way to understand
> what people are talking about when they say
> things about the package selection and management
> in Debian. It's like travel, it broadens the mind.
> Then you go back to the favorite place and live there.
>
That is correct but I have a different job, I cannot always try and search.
But simultaneously have to choose one and start work there, even if it takes
me more than two years to learn that OS, but I have to choose one and start
the journey. Your suggestion is good but that is good only for the one who
has more of time to test all these things. I just want to get out of
Windows, want to sit in the shade of Linux tree and the out of only two
trees I am (in fact 'was') confused with - Debian or openSUSE, as both have
rock solid stability and rock solid security. But still on the coming Sunday
(as you say), I would give the try to Live CDs (at least to Debian, openSUSE
and Knoppix).
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Camaleón <noela...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe you think that because you see openSUSE as a "transient" step to
> finally reach Debian but it is not: openSUSE is powerful enough to fit
> any requirements, from the most basic to the most advanced usage so it
> can be used as a start point to get the user introduced into the Linux
> world as well as a final point, to use it on clusters and HPC systems.
>
That's really nice to know!
I dropped openSUSE in favor of Debian just because they (openSUSE)
> reduced the security patches support period from 24 to 18 months. This
> wouldn't have been a problem if I were a home user that only has one
> computer to attend, but as an admin I need to manage servers and
> workstations and having to update every 18 months all the machines is not
> something I can support.
>
This is not a problem for a single home user because I think even if the
period is of 18 months, one (here 'I') can learn at least some basics of
Linux, and after 18 months can install/upgrade the newer version and then
for next 18 months - again it is safe. The basic fundamental of the newer
upgraded version too would remain the same as that of the one with was it
got replaced, please let me know if it is like that....mean am I correct in
this sense....?
Testing other distributions can be a true headache for first time linux
> users... I -having using linux boxes since 2003- had to accustomed to the
> Debian-way system and still costs me a bit to get used to it (and I'm
> using Debian since 2009!).
That's why from the starting itself, I am searching the one to which I would
sticking with and need not to change again and again so that I would know
about how that particular thing works---like in our case either Debian or
openSUSE (with more preference to the later one).
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Burhan Hanoglu <burhano...@gmail.com>wrote:
Both freedom and stability are still good things to have while going
> thru the "newbie" stage. Ending up learning a "good" distro at the end
> of the stage mentioned is also an important thing.
I agree because once addicted with, it becomes a good habbit that we always
like that feature which is really *good* and always.
> OpenSuse can be as stable as well, but the main perfection with Suse
> is being able to get almost everything done in the GUI mainly using
> YAST, which is a good thing. However....
>
I read somewhere (thought I am beginner and may I am **wrong**) that while
everything is possible with GUI (that's why it is easier for beginners too)
but simultaneously it (openSUSE) do provide command line for the people like
you (experts/who know about Linux).
> However; "perfection" for a novice is not just to find another OS or
> GNU/Linux distribution using which they can do everything on a stable
> GUI. What eventually is more important is the scene behind the GUI. I
> have to admit that GUI helps a novice get things configured and work
> rather quickly and easily, but by achieving the same result the hard
> way, which takes more time; a novice can end up with real-world
> experiments. This is when the "objective accomplished" when the matter
> is "learning Linux"; even for a regular user...
>
That is correct and I know (I must be true..!) that command line is the only
way to know how your (or mine) computer is actually working and what is
happening behind the movie. While openSUSE could provide everything GUI (as
you say), I guess (with some surety) that it must be providing excellent
command line utilities too (like Debian, of course).
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Camaleón <noela...@gmail.com> wrote:
I did not say the opposite, just that they're not your "main" concern
> because an stable and freedom system is useless unless you can install
> and be able to work with your system.
>
That is also correct but I guess ('according to me') before using the system
it should be stable also even if the users don't know about it since many
users who work on the banking system, they do work and follows the bank
transactions in a highly stable and secured system(s), though they don't
know about stability! However, this is just an example, but I guess, it
should/must matter a lot.
> The beauty of openSUSE is that you can run the applications or setting up
> the system configuration either from 1) a GUI wizard, 2) using the GUI
> ncurses counterpart or 3) by typing the required commands... you can
> choose whatever level of expertise best suits for you and that's
> something that is not available in other distributions.
>
And that's why it (openSUSE) could be great even for a beginner! It is also
stable (rock-solid) like Debian but exceeds Debian in terms of GUI (I
guess). So better for a beginner ('me' here).
> Sure! I fully agree with your POV and openSUSE is "perfect" for such
> scenario because it provides the user the possibility to go for the
> novice, intermadiate or the expert path ;-)
And that's why I go for its trial on the coming Sunday.
I am thankful to all of you who told the great experiences, these all are
useful for me for everyone so that as a matter of generality, only the
accurate facts are known. As a matter of great interest, I am sure (100%)
that whatever distro (either Debian or openSUSE) I use, I am far better in
the long run as compared to Windows (which I don't want to use only because
of security).
Thx.
