On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 14:20:16 -0700, Weaver wrote: > On Sat, September 15, 2012 8:15 am, Camaleón wrote:
>>> Newbie Installation of Debian Squeeze 6.0.5 i386 Netinstall disc. >> >> IMO, newbies should go for CD or DVD installation disc instead. > > If they are going to get all their updates from the 'Net in the future, > they may well be better off experiencing that with the installer. Can you exapand that? I don't see any relation between using a bigger image as installation media and having to update from the net afterwards. The netinstall simply takes more time for someone who wants to get a full desktop environment right after the installation, that's all :-) >> I will use a 3 GiB partition. > > This is an older style RAM. > DIMM SDRAM Synchronous 266 MHz > Both available slots are filled to a maximum capacity of 2 GB. With just > abn email client open - just sitting there and Iceweasel with two tabs > open, I'm using 32% > > This is one of the reasons as to why I'm building a new box. I don't the your point here, sorry. Having 4 GiB of "/swap" for what, exactly? Hibernation uses compression and 3 GiB should be enough for this purpose. If you are worried about the scarce amount of RAM in your system, consider a different desktop environment (such as XFCE) or using another applications instead memory eaters like Iceweasel or the like :-) >> IMO, too much space for /home. I would split the remaining space for "/ >> home" and "/". > > It depends on what you need it for. It's not you but the system. You have to consolidate your needs with the system ones :-) > I know one young chap that downloads a lot of movies. What if you have a > more mature newbie that is starting his own graphics business and is > trying to keep overheads down by learning GIMP, etc. Graphics files take > up a lot of space. Potential must be allowed for. Fine. But remember a system that runs out of space cannot even be booted which translates into no movies, no images... no nothing. The operating system has to be "happy" and (this is my personal view) the user stuff can be always placed in a separated/dedicated hard disk or another media other than taking a valuable space that can be used to making room for patches and a plethora of applications that is still to come... >> You are being too much protective. A linux user (newbie or not) should >> know what these terms are or at least, have a bare idea of their >> meaning. > > Yes, but the reality is that they don't. This, again, from personal > experience. You cannot assume a minimum prior knowledge and then create > the communication gap that fails to achieve the aim. "A minimum prior knowledge" is required for installing an OS. A computer is not a fridge and if you start by encouraging users to think that way you'll be creating lazy users and this is nothing but a big problem in the future. >> Hidding too much information can be as bad as displaying all the data. > > No information is hidden here. If you only show a unique partition layout, yes, you're deliberately omiting the rest of the options. > Only the knowledge for a successful installation is delivered in a > manner accessible to the market. Mailing lists, etc., are not accessible > till then. > Plenty of time for indepth knowledge then. I think all users (regardless their current skills) have the right to be properly informed, and this means pointing them to documents and sites where they can read and learn about the available options. >> In my experience, people do not tend to read much at the installation >> screen neither this is a good place where to stay for too long. > > There's no need to worry about the time factor. The installer isn't > going anywhere. Unless you had developed an energy system that lasts forever, the installer will go away as soon as the battery or power supply go down, so yes, time is something to take into account ;-) >> Too much text can make the user to doubt > > The information required is no more than it needs to be to achieve > communication effectively. "Required information" will vary depending on the kind of user, some will need a more detailed explanation than others and you can't start describing the principles of the informatics here. >> and the installation wizard cannot be a replacement for a good manual such >> the >> Relase Notes and Installation Guide. > > I didn't read about those until well after I had done my first two > installations and by then I didn't need them. That's a bad step. Every user should read the docs before installing, that's what they are for. > I have actually downloaded the installation guide and have intended to read > it, > but here we sit, years later, and I still haven't. I wouldn't encourage any user to follow that proceeding, sorry. >>> Popularity Contest = Yes. There's more explanation here than there is >>> for partitioning. >> >> I would remove this option. > > I know what you mean, but if you want information from somebody else's > system, it's polite to ask. (...) Yes, but not from the installer, IMO. Anyway, I find the PopCon methodology a bit biased, I prefer that some asks me directly (not my system) what I have installed and why I prefer one application over another (that I have installed and applications does not have to mean I want to be there, I could have forgotten about the application was there or simply I left installed to avoid breaking something). >> I will add a warning here about the time it can take to download the >> full DE so the installation process can be delayed noticeabily. > > I think it's best to give the Newbie a GUI as soon as possible. (...) Then use a bigger media (CD or DVD) ;-) >>> There might, from a newbie perspective, need to be a short note at the >>> proxy configure stage. What's a proxy? >> >> Come on... if they are currently browsing the web and getting e-mails >> in their inbox they should already know what a proxy is. > > Nope! > When I first installed, I wondered if the installer was referring to the > ISP! Whatever. The user only has to know he is using something called "proxy" and he has to provide the proper data. That's all. >>> But from what I can see, the only major bulwark to a more substantial >>> user uptake is the clarification of partitioning. The installer has >>> now reached the stage where everything else is pretty much >>> self-explanatory. >> >> I will avoid a verbose installer. > > So would I. > Verbosity is not what is required at any time. Efficient communication > of minimal information, to achieve success in the process is. I'm afraid what you call "efficient communication of minimal information" is what I understand as "verbose" ;-) >> Debian people has done a marvelous work with thteir documentation and >> this step (Partitioning) is very well explained there¹ (even it has a >> separate Appendix!). >> > > There are many other such references, but the Newbie doesn't know about > them. That's something that should be corrected, then. > Once he gains access, somebody will probably tell him. A simple > install procedure is what is required. A multiple reference > bibliography, with a full-blown glossary and acronym listing are not. As I see it, a "simple install procedure" will generate "simple oulooks". I prefer generate responsible user frrm the beginning. Introducing them to Linux by pretending it's something easy it's a big error they will notice as times goes by and he later discovers no operating system is a bed of roses. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/k34p1o$vkm$4...@ger.gmane.org
