On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 12:03 -0500, Conrad Nelson wrote: > On 08/27/2013 12:00 PM, Conrad Nelson wrote: > > On 08/27/2013 10:22 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: > >> Le 27.08.2013 17:07, Conrad Nelson a écrit : > >>> Debian's other problem is this need to split packages. A lot. Debian > >>> likes to brag about having a HUGE repository, but when you actually > >>> look at it, it's actually an AVERAGE repository made "bigger" by the > >>> fact that when you install software, despite the fact it downloads and > >>> installs up to 12 packages for the same thing it really is basically > >>> just ONE package. I don't actually see the purpose in why Debian has > >>> to split its packages dozens of ways especially when you still end up > >>> having to install them all anyway. Someone explain this to me. > >> > >> > >> I agree on most of your post, except that part. > >> > >> Can you please provide package's names which should be united? > >> > >> Of course, there are the ".*$", ".*-dev$", ".*-doc$" and ".*-dbg$" > >> packages, which could be merged. For -dev, ok, since text does not > >> take a lot of space. Still, most users does not need the headers of > >> programming libraries, so that separation makes the system smaller, > >> and reduce network load. > >> For -dbg, it' of course a good thing to not merge them: debugging > >> symbols takes a lot of space. > >> Then, there are -doc packages, too. I think the reason is the same: > >> most users does not need them, so why should they install it? > >> > >> Now, if you mean that packages are too atomic, like, for example, > >> libpython2.7 which depends on libpython2.7-stdlib... I just want to > >> say that it's exactly why I dislike python's softwares: they usually > >> depends on lot of things which I do not think are necessary. Debian > >> simply shows that. I have no other examples than python's ones here, > >> so provide some, so that I could argue better :) (because that > >> argument is really poor: I do not like python... XD ) > >> > > Oh, no, I think the -dev, -dbg, etc stuff SHOULD be split. > > > > I'll go by example: The nvidia driver. In Arch it's easy to install, > > there's not a lot of packages directly involved in the driver. Just > > nvidia and nvidia-utils, as it should be. > > > > Debian SPLITS these two packages about two dozen different ways, with > > names that often confuse me into thinking one package is actually the > > driver. They COULD be the driver, but just installing those packages > > and trying to configure for nVidia doesn't seem to work for Xorg. > > > > I found out that pretty much the only way to install the nVidia driver > > is the dkms package, which seems unneeded for users with the stock > > kernel. Shouldn't Debian have a PREBUILT nVidia module for their stock > > kernel? The end result is that installing this driver and configuring > > it is unnecessarily messy and complicated due in no small part to the > > fact you install at least half a dozen packages all of which look like > > they're the driver itself. > > > > I can understand having a dkms package for custom kernels, though. > > > > I don't think I can explain the splitting thing that bugs me well > > enough. Just that I think that Debian's claims to have a HUGE > > repository are maybe a little dishonest when if they actually reduced > > all their packages to what they are at their source, it's much smaller > > than what they claim. Maybe a better metric would actually be about > > actual quantity of SOFTWARE AS A WHOLE over individual packages. But > > by that metric I daresay I've found more software in Arch's > > repositories + the AUR than in Debian. > I'm not really happy with my example or explanation. Short answer is it > is, indeed, too atomic, the way they split packages. I'd only split > packages in cases where whatever is split off can be replaced > completely, otherwise the split seems pointless (Exception being stuff > liek -doc or -dev or -dbg. Not everyone is a developer.)
You'll find packages in AUR that are split too. The linux-rt PKGBUILD does split linux-rt into linux-rt-docs, -headers and the kernel image package ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1377627535.711.22.camel@archlinux
