On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 3:20:05 PM UTC+5:30, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Scott Ferguson wrote: > > On 21/10/14 15:10, Miles Fidelman wrote: > >> Scott Ferguson wrote: > >>> Good question Patrick - top posted as I'm referring to the Subject. > >>> On 21/10/14 06:45, Patrick Bartek wrote: > >>>> After much vitriolic gnashing of teeth from those opposed to systemd, > >>>> I wonder... What is a better alternative? And it can't be sysvinit. > >>>> Yes. Syvinit still works, but it is after all 20 years old. It's been > >>>> patched and bolted onto and jury-rigged to get it to do things that > >>>> weren't even around (or dreamt of) at its inception. It's long past > >>>> due for a contemporary replacement. Whatever that may be. > >>>> So, what would you all propose? For a server? Or for a user desktop? > >>>> Or something that fulfills both scenarios? And why? > >>> One of the difficulties is that there is no clear distinction between a > >>> desktop and a server - just degrees. > >> Um, yes, there is. Typically different hardware (headless for > >> starters), storage area networks, clusters, high availability, as well > >> as different role, and so forth. > >> Miles > > With respect, you're just repeating your claim that there is a clear > > distinction between server and desktop - not proving it, which doesn't > > advance the discussion.
> Ok, let's start with: > - it's the rare desktop that has a fiber channel interface > - it's the rare desktop that has an interface for dual-ported disk drives > - it's the rare desktop configuration that splits processing and storage > (e.g., blade servers + storage servers) > - in servers, large RAID arrays are common, desktops might have a pair > of mirrored disks, never seen anybody set up a desktop for RAID5,6,10 > - these days, servers are generally run in clusters, with cluster file > systems, and environments like openstack on top of them > - when it comes to performance, desktops generally emphasize graphics > performance (e.g., for gaming, video editing, and such); servers are > designed more for how many virtual machines they can run > - high-availability clustering is a big data center concern, not a > desktop concern (anybody run DRBD, or Corosync on a dekstop?) > - when it comes to virtualization, on desktops its mostly for running > programs in other environments; for servers its mostly about supporting > lots of independent users and services > - when's the last time you saw a desktop or laptop with an IPMI BMC (or > for that matter, had a BMC infected by a virus - not pretty) (note: if > you don't know what BMC stands for, then go away and learn something > about serious data centers, before weighing in on the distinctions > between desktops and servers) > - scalability, optimization for transaction processing, high-volume mail > processing, etc., etc., etc. - not issues that one worries about on the > desktop > > Samba is a server, as is NFS, and apache. If you run them on a desktop > > is it still *just* a desktop? > > Can you not run a desktop on server hardware? > Generally not - except remotely - given that most servers are headless > and don't have graphics boards. Yeah, one can X- into a server, if you > install the software. Many (most?) don't - CLI and various management > tools is plenty good for server admin (along with lots of bash scripts - > one of the reasons that a lot of sysadmins don't like systemd). > > Can you not run a server on desktop hardware? > Not if you're supporting a serious load - unless you're clustering lots > of machines (but once you cluster a few hundred motherboards, you're > talking a desktop machine, you're talking a cluster). > > I don't "believe" you've thought this through... : > > I'll leave pulseaudio out, just to make things simpler (and acknowledge > > that "simple" is a synonym for "dumb"). > I don't believe you have any knowledge whatsoever about data centers or > real servers - and are talking through your hat. That you even mention > audio in the same conversation as > servers says you're in a different universe. Are you guys just having fun talking past each other? Or seriously dont know the two meanings of 'server'? First two here: http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/server -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/b38ccdfc-09a1-4b17-865e-d6f3bdf85...@googlegroups.com