On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 1:18 PM Susmita/Rajib <bkpsusmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello! > > A wonderfully informative email indeed. It entices me to more specific > questions. > > I would like to partially quote you to maintain a context for my reply. > > You said, "... C++ would be much easier to learn once you understand C ..." > I learnt c, but didn't like it, as I didn't find a list of specific > modules (or reusable example code-snippets) to achieve an objective. > The header files are very, very complex and they can't be understood. > The header files use machine language and push those obscure portions > into tiny little black boxes, under the carpet, away from our sight. I > used cscope to read the header files and understand them, but in vain. > To me, c appears as a hodge podge of low level and high level > programming languages. Not a complete programming language in itself. > c language appears to encourage a complex ecosystem of numerous > programmers coming from diverse fields, all working as individual > parts of a very complex machinery. > But c ecosystem appears to discourage a complete programmer who has a > complete idea of the entire machinery and its individual components. A > slight imbalance in super-specialisation could bring down an entire > system. > > I was really excited by the scope provided by Java. It appeared so > easy to me that I could easily build a functional program, to aid > memorising alphabets abcd... in the reverse, "which alphabet came > before which alphabet" using a random function, in a graphical > environment. > > I had read that Java could be used to build an entire Operating System > up by itself. In essence, therefore, device drivers as well. > Unfortunately, that project of building an OS in Java was dropped long > back. Java isn't used for building device drivers for the industry, so > far as I have gathered. > > Regarding my note, "... had a programming language been developed > that could address both the lowest microprocessor(machine)-level to > the most advanced user level programming, reading, comprehension and > application ...", you said, "... Python should be your choice! ..." > Is it supposed to mean that theoretically, an entire OS could be built > up from scratch using Python? Including device drivers? > You said, "... there is even MicroPython for microcontrollers ...". So > according to your comment, python should be able to build a device > driver as well as an OS. And there already exist such implementations. > > I was trying to find out if c++ could be used to build device drivers. > You said, "... Linux drivers are written in C, but technically you can > mix languages: use C++ and link it against C ...". But I would request > more specificity here: (a) if c++ could be used without using any > other programming language to build a device driver. (b) If it is > practised industrially. > > I often wonder aloud why c wasn't re-built to have the modularity and > OOP structure of Java. It would definitely have helped. Yes, I know > that the demand wasn't there, when programmers thought that 1024KB > would address all problems of the world. > > But a language could be re-built to incorporate every programming > need. Then aided by a huge library of code snippets, functions, > objects, etc., like Oracle Java repository. But to reach the lowest > level possible. > The problem with JAVA is Oracle. If you build something good that goes into main stream use you risk Oracle suing you like they are with Google Android. I began learning python, but I am not sure if python could be used in > place of Assembly (or machine) Language, addressing programming needs > from the lowest to the highest level. Perhaps your notes answer my > doubts. Would like to know more. > > For example, like Deepmind's Alpha Code AI, writing codes as per > requirements, research is getting there. > So I would like to develop an understanding of programming from the > lowest level to the highest level. The way programming is approached > in textbooks doesn't suit me. I can't have the flexibility to use > programming like a cobweb or a network, jumping from lowest level to > the highest level according to my need. > > I read that micropython is written in c. So it is just like > circumlocuting to the same point from where it began. > > So confusing! > > Hope that some confusions shall be set aside in your subsequent posts. > > You also said, "... debian-gcc maintainers maintain the gcc package > for Debian, they are not responsible for teaching people C or C++ ..." > > I didn't expect them to teach, but only to share their insights and > information. In contrast, the debian-python group readily shared > information with me on python. > > Best wishes, > Rajib > > > > > To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org> > Subject: Re: How should learning to program in c++ be approached, > if learning objectives are sought to be customised? > From: IL Ka <kazakevichi...@gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 16:34:33 +0300 > Message-id: <[🔎] > CAHv=rm2ykzdjozjsqpc7gvjmdry1o6-xranxvcdgw_cqt--...@mail.gmail.com> > In-reply-to: <[🔎] > caeg4czwmot23cvnbg_rrag0gbwciot-up2v117tzg+knf2c...@mail.gmail.com> > References: <[🔎] > caeg4czwmot23cvnbg_rrag0gbwciot-up2v117tzg+knf2c...@mail.gmail.com> > > Hello, > [ ... snip ... ] > >
