On June 17, 2024 10:56:11 AM UTC, Ian Jackson <ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:
>Joerg Jaspert writes ("Re: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload"):
>> On 17262 March 1977, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> > I would ask you not to characterise the disagreement we are having as
>> > merely over a technical detail.
>>
>> You see this as personal? I don't, but if it is not technical, what
>> else?
>
>I think Sean means it's not a detail. From our point of view, we're
>talking about a critical property of our design.
>
>> Which behind the scenes? To who did you talk?
>
>Firstly, I want to ask: would it have made any difference if we had
>raised the matter in public again on -devel?
>
>Based on your replies here, it seems that ftpmaster's objections are
>still just as firm now as they have been over the past four years.
>We wouldn't want to keep asking the same question on a list like
>-devel, when we are pretty sure the answer will just be the same; that
>would be rude to both ftpmaster and the rest of Debian.
>
>Anyway, if we're going down this route:
>
>I think we didn't speak to ftpmaster directly about this since 2019.
>
>I don't want to name names in case this turns into a finger-pointing
>exercise, but, over the years, we have spoken to various people, with
>varying levels of formality:
>
> * We made fairly formal appeals to two sitting DPLs. What we got
> was, basically, attempts at mediation, or facilitation of
> discussions. We didn't see that as helpful, since we saw an
> irreconcilable gap between our position and ftpmaster's.
>
> Sean and I were under the impression that the most recent response
> we got from a sittinug DPL was sent to us after consulting with
> ftpmaster.
>
> * We have asked for help from two sitting members of the TC, and one
> former DPL. I don't think any of those people would have spoken to
> ftpmaster, but neither did they suggest that we should raise the
> matter on -devel again.
>
> One outcome of that was encouragement to give the talk I did at the
> 2023 Cambridge minidebconf. I explicitly stated that the project
> was blocked by ftpmaster, but of course I don't expect ftpmaster to
> have necessarily seen that talk.
>
It seems to me that you are the one that's unwilling to engage in any
discussion on the topic and as a result, have blocked yourself.
I don't know that there is an irresolvable disconnect between your design goals
for tag2upload and the FTP Masters' design goals for managing access to the
Debian archive. Unfortunately, due to your unwillingness to engage in good
faith dialogue on the topic, it's likely we'll never know. If you keep on the
current path, one of two things is going to happen:
1. Your GR passes and you get what you want.
2. Your GR fails and tag2upload is dead.
Personally, I don't like either of those outcomes.
My recommendation is that you step back, give everyone about 6 months to cool
off and then actually engage with the FTP Team to see if we can do both.
Scott K
