Great reply. Thank you for the elaborate information.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Christophe Strobbe < stro...@hdm-stuttgart.de> wrote: > Hi, > > On 10/06/2015 13:41, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: > > I guess it is controversial because there's a hostility of some LO users > to > > allow direct formatting of the document instead of resorting to Styles. > > Therefore, some people consider that direct formatting should be hidden? > > It is also an accessibility issue. If you make text bold and big instead > of using a proper heading style, it is much harder for software (e.g. > assistive technologies such as screenreaders, but also software that > converts word processing files to DAISY books) to figure out that > something is a heading. In fact, this category of software relies on > correct styles to figure out what kind of structure is being used. > > This is why people have created accessible authoring guidelines such as > these <http://adod.idrc.ocad.ca/oowriter> (I contributed to these > guidelines) and an accessibility checker such as AccessODF > <http://accessodf.sourceforge.net/> (sadly no longer compatible since > the introduction of the sidepanel from Lotus Symphony). > Similar issues exist in web content, which is why we have guidelines > such as WCAG <http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/> (also an ISO standard) and > WAI-ARIA <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/>. > > > However, many users do prefer to use direct formatting and competing > Office > > suites provide easy access to direct formatting. I don't know why > > developers consider this to be a wrong approach? > > Making the access to direct formatting more difficult would just draw > > people away from LO to closed source office suites. > > And removing direct formatting just to make people more aware of > Styles???? > > Most people don't know what direct formatting (as opposed to the use of > proper styles) is, so the preferred approach should be to make the use > of proper styles as easy and intuitive as possible. > > Best regards, > > Christophe > > > wow. Is there a more heavy handed top-down approach from developers to > > force users to do things as they want to? Christ. > > > > If you want to make Styles more used than redesign the Sidebar for Styles > > and Formatting into something more intuitive. The way as it is presented > > now is completely unintuitive compared with the Properties tab where you > > clearly know what pressing the Bold button will do for example. > > > > If you want users to use Styles then strongly improve the UX of the > Sidebar > > pane, allow for easy visualization of different styles and easy change of > > Style of each component. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Jay Philips <ypha...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi Sophie, > >> > >> On 06/07/2015 11:22 PM, Sophie wrote: > >> > >>> The promise, at the time, was to re-start the survey to obtain more > >>>> accurate statistics (I cannot remember the discussion word by word as > >>>> too much time and too many things have gone by). I suppose that some > >>>> objections coming from Sophie reflect those objections from the > >>>> community. > >>>> > >>> Yes, I'm on my way to ask the FR community to react on that, mostly > >>> those in real contact with users, doing migrations and training. Not > >>> because we want to rely only on users feedback but also on the > >>> robustness of our document roundtrip and exchanges, and for that, we > >>> know that styles are the common sense to treat them. > >>> > >> Look forward to the feedback. > >> > >> Unfortunately, the survey was never re-started because of the Oracle > >>>> acquisition and the subsequent turmoil inside StarDivision and inside > >>>> the community. > >>>> > >>> That would be a great thing to do a survey now that people are more > >>> aware of the necessity to communicate in different environments. > >>> > >>> Jay, I'll answer your details tomorrow, but about direct formatting, > >>> that was one of the most controversial thing to add it to the sidebar > so > >>> prominently. Most of the training material available remove the > >>> formating toolbar to make people aware of styles... > >>> > >> Dont see why it would be controversial when all other office suites that > >> utilize sidebars (iWork, Calligra) have direct formatting in the > sidebar. > >> The sad thing is that paragraph and character styles dropdown lists > arent > >> present in the sidebar's properties tab. > >> > >> Jay > >> > > > -- > Christophe Strobbe > Akademischer Mitarbeiter > Responsive Media Experience Research Group (REMEX) > Hochschule der Medien > Nobelstraße 10 > 70569 Stuttgart > Tel. +49 711 8923 2749 > > “It is possible to make a living making free software for freedom > instead of closed-source proprietary malware for cops.” > Jacob Appelbaum, > < > http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/12/28/jacob-appelbaum-on-resisting-the-surveillance-state/ > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
