I made a mistake assuming lazy consensus.. .I did not intend to cheat the process or anything.
I don't want to talk too much about the process here to not diverge the discussion, as I will be more careful in the future. Don't worry about that part. I don't have a strong feeling to what list we're moving. I thought moving to its own list would clear any doubts and I suggested a new list for that. If issues satisfy everybody lets go with [email protected] On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 10:46 AM Robbie Gemmell <[email protected]> wrote: > > Can you elaborate on why you think the mails are better related to > commits@ but not issues@? > > For me, they arent commits, but are issue-related given they tend to > be disucssion of the underlying problem or discussing improvements to > the changes addressing it. Similar to what most JIRA comments used to > be before the PRs. The PR will also typically have a JIRA associated > which comments get mirrored into as worklog, so they seem quite > related. Once all that discussion happens, a change may or may nto get > pushed, at which point it ends up with a mail on commits@. > > Robbie > > On Thu, 21 Feb 2019 at 15:06, Clebert Suconic <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > I would prefer either commits or its own list, those github comments > > are not always related to JIRA. > > > > I would go with [email protected] > > > > > > @Tim Bish I understand you +0 on this. as I said I can myself deal > > with filters.. but the target of such changes is for users and other > > non committers looking at the dev list. The noise doesn't make it > > easy. (Those gitbox messages are just noise, that i have to filter > > out.. so they are useless anyway). Devs who like them will be able to > > subscribe the appropriate list. > > > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 9:37 AM Timothy Bish <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 2/21/19 9:13 AM, Clebert Suconic wrote: > > > > Robbie. I sent this message on feb-14. JB suggested commit list and I > > > > agreed with him. So I assumed consensus. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you like another list please let me know the name and make a post on > > > > the > > > > Jira so this moves on. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > I'd go with issues@ to keep them on the same list as the JIRA mails if > > > we have to move them at all but as others I'm +0 on the need to move > > > since mail filters work just fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:37 AM Clebert Suconic > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> If you prefer issues@. I’m fine with that. > > > >> > > > >> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:29 AM Clebert Suconic > > > >> <[email protected]> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> This is a simple task. I did not think it would be a big deal. Those > > > >>> gitbox messages on the list are noise. (Everyone just filters them > > > >>> out). I > > > >>> don’t see a point in keeping them on dev list. I can filter them out. > > > >>> But > > > >>> that doesn’t make it easy on non committees looking at our list. > > > >>> > > > >>> I updated the JiRA accordingly. I think the name is sensible enough. > > > >>> > > > >>> If you ok with everything we can move ahead. On that case update the > > > >>> JIRA. If not please let Me know. > > > >>> > > > >>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 7:54 AM Robbie Gemmell > > > >>> <[email protected]> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Hah, I actually overlooked that you updated the JIRA to suggest > > > >>>> specifically "activemq-gitbox". I'm assuming that means a suggested > > > >>>> email address of [email protected]? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Robbie > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2019 at 12:44, Robbie Gemmell > > > >>>> <[email protected]> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>>> I think we should stop asking infra to do things before they have > > > >>>>> been > > > >>>>> fully set out/agreed. If I was infra then now you have updated the > > > >>>>> JIRA my next question would be: what is this new list called? > > > >>>>> Followed > > > >>>>> by, why didnt we create it already using > > > >>>>> https://selfserve.apache.org? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Personally, I would just re-use "issues@" given PR comments do seem > > > >>>>> like issues traffic, and I think we have enough lists. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> If enough folks think we should use a new list though, it would be > > > >>>>> good to agree a name (which could be done via a simple lazy > > > >>>>> consensus > > > >>>>> statement), then we can create it, and then we can ask infra to > > > >>>>> update > > > >>>>> things to use it. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Robbie > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2019 at 12:03, Clebert Suconic < > > > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > >>>>>> Lazy consensus was for the overal move. I didn't think on the list > > > >>>>>> name (I thought it was ok on just moving it there) > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> I will change the JIRA to be on its own list. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 5:24 AM Robbie Gemmell < > > > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> Invoking Lazy Consensus normally involves giving people a clear > > > >>>> period > > > >>>>>>> to agree/disagree with your intended action before you initiate > > > >>>>>>> it. > > > >>>>>>> This mail thread had obviously been around for a number of days, > > > >>>> but > > > >>>>>>> discussing 'should we do this?' isn't quite the same thing as > > > >>>>>>> discussing 'I'm doing this tomorrow unless further discussion > > > >>>> suggests > > > >>>>>>> otherwise'. You shouldnt have to 'assume consensus'. Some of the > > > >>>>>>> details weren't at all concrete, in particular noone really > > > >>>> properly > > > >>>>>>> discussed the destination list: 'new list' or 'separate list' was > > > >>>> the > > > >>>>>>> terminology you used throughout the thread and commits@ was only > > > >>>>>>> mentioned as a 'for instance' by JB once mid-thread. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I'm -1 on using "commits@" personally, I dont think comments on > > > >>>> PRs > > > >>>>>>> belong on that list. There is also an "issues@" already where the > > > >>>> JIRA > > > >>>>>>> traffic was moved previously and between those two lists I'd say > > > >>>> that > > > >>>>>>> makes a far better destination, if it isn't to be a completely new > > > >>>>>>> list. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> If folks mostly think using commits@ is great, so be it, but we > > > >>>> should > > > >>>>>>> actually discuss that. I have posted on the JIRA to ask that Infra > > > >>>> to > > > >>>>>>> hold off moving things while we do so. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I'm -0 on the overall move as I too think the messages are fine > > > >>>> where > > > >>>>>>> they are and are easily filterable, but I do admit the same > > > >>>> applies in > > > >>>>>>> reverse; if we move them I'll typically just filter them back into > > > >>>> the > > > >>>>>>> same place they were going originally. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Robbie > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 16:01, Clebert Suconic < > > > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> I'm assuming consensus and I'm asking infra to move the gitbox > > > >>>>>>>> messages to the commit message. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 11:44 AM Clebert Suconic > > > >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> Don’t get me wrong. I can do with filters personally. > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> I just think this could be more friendly for new people > > > >>>> joining in. Like Ryan yeats who just posted his opinion (as if > > > >>>> someone > > > >>>> just joining) > > > >>>>>>>>> What about this. We could ask Infra to move GitHub messages > > > >>>> to a new list. > > > >>>>>>>>> I already follow GitHub messages on my email directly anyways. > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> If people want those they can subscribe to the new list. > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 9:21 AM michael.andre.pearce < > > > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>> I am also +0 on this. I find email filters more than > > > >>>> adequate, and avoid me having to maintain several mail group > > > >>>> subscriptions, > > > >>>> it will all come to one mailbox anyhow.Sent from my Samsung Galaxy > > > >>>> smartphone. > > > >>>>>>>>>> -------- Original message --------From: Clebert Suconic < > > > >>>> [email protected]> Date: 15/02/2019 22:39 (GMT+00:00) To: > > > >>>> [email protected] Subject: Re: [Discuss] automated github > > > >>>> messages on a separate list The thing is. I can do fine with > > > >>>> filtering. > > > >>>> So in a way I’m doing thisbased on a feedback of someone else.So I am > > > >>>> putting myself in the shoes of someone coming on board now. > > > >>>> Justtrying to > > > >>>> make it easy for new people.On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 6:58 AM > > > >>>> Christopher > > > >>>> Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:> I am +0 on this > > > >>>> because either way is fine with me as it's really easy to> do mail > > > >>>> filters > > > >>>> on either addresses or on subject tags.>> There is a ton of Github > > > >>>> traffic > > > >>>> right now obviously so to make it> manageable I have filters and > > > >>>> labels > > > >>>> setup on my gmail account so that> GitHub related messages get > > > >>>> tagged with > > > >>>> one label and everything else is a> different one which solves the > > > >>>> issue. > > > >>>> I imagine most email providers have> something similar.>> On Fri, > > > >>>> Feb 15, > > > >>>> 2019 at 3:20 AM Clebert Suconic <[email protected]> >> > > > >>>> wrote:>> > > > >>>>> People are probably missing this discussion because of that noise.> > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 7:47 AM Otavio Piske <[email protected]> > > > >>>> wrote:> >> > > Sharing my perspective as someone who also would like > > > >>>> to > > > >>>> contribute> more> > > often: I think that it be good.> > >> > > I > > > >>>> think > > > >>>> that the Github messages create a lot of noise in the mailbox.> It> > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> requires constant cleaning/filtering and it is easy to miss > > > >>>> discussions> > > > > >>>>> about subjects that interest me and for which I would like to > > > >>>>> help.> > >> > > > >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 12:43 AM Clebert Suconic <> > > > > > >>>> [email protected]>> > > wrote:> > >> > > > I work on this dev > > > >>>> list on my daily basis. We had some members here> > > > suggesting > > > >>>> doing > > > >>>> this in the past and we decided to let just people> to> > > > filter > > > >>>> out > > > >>>> stuff with filters. Etc.> > > >> > > > But this doesn’t make easy > > > >>>> to > > > >>>> recruit new open source devs.> > > >> > > > I just heard from a guy > > > >>>> who > > > >>>> only subscribed users list because there> is> > > too> > > > much > > > >>>> traffic.> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Github is easy enough to follow. So I propose we move GitHub> > > > >>>> comments> > > to a> > > > separate list.> > > >> > > >> > > > We > > > >>>> could > > > >>>> leave this list for more generic and important discussions.> > > > > > >>>> Such> > > > > > >>>>> as the web site. Architectural decisions. Releases. And > > > >>>>> eventually> > > > > >>>> even> > > > codes but without the clutter of github.> > > > --> > > > > > > >>>> Clebert Suconic> > > >> > >> > >> > > --> > > Kind regards> > >> > > > > >>>> --> > > > > >>>> Clebert Suconic> >>-- Clebert Suconic > > > >>>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>> Clebert Suconic > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Clebert Suconic > > > >>> > > > >> -- > > > >> Clebert Suconic > > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > Tim Bish > > > > > > > > > -- > > Clebert Suconic -- Clebert Suconic
