I agree with Niko here.

If someone is willing to give it a try, we should enable it experimentally
and give it a stint for a couple of weeks. If we see significant results,
we can adopt it.

Thanks & Regards,
Amogh Desai

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 3:32 AM Oliveira, Niko <[email protected]>
wrote:

> The Astral folks also seem very focused on it being a drop-in/compliant
> replacement for pip. So I think it's definitely worth dropping it in and
> seeing if we get the expected performance improvements. If tests still pass
> and user facing constraints and install instructions remain unchanged I
> don't see why not, if someone is willing to spend the time on it. Never
> mind the extra features it would give us (I, like others, am also very
> excited about --resolution=lowest, ability).
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andrey Anshin <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 12:26:56 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [COURRIEL EXTERNE] [DISCUSS] Considering trying
> out uv for our CI workflows
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> AVERTISSEMENT: Ce courrier électronique provient d’un expéditeur externe.
> Ne cliquez sur aucun lien et n’ouvrez aucune pièce jointe si vous ne pouvez
> pas confirmer l’identité de l’expéditeur et si vous n’êtes pas certain que
> le contenu ne présente aucun risque.
>
>
>
> > I share Andrey's skepticism. It's just yet another tool which has an
> unclear
> development strategy.
>
> My point was more about a matter of presentation. If someone told you "this
> is a new tool, like a killer of previous tools" then you might think
> "Yeah...yeah...yeah.. yet another replacement to tool X...  not really
> interesting". On the other hand if someone told you what in cases you might
> solve, then this might be a mind changer.
>
> Especially the promising `--resolution=lowest` option. We always want to
> test something with minimal dependencies because we are not sure that it
> might work with pretty old dependencies, and recently I've started to work
> on POC to collect minimal versions of the Airflow and Providers. And at the
> moment when I almost finished it the uv was released. Well sometimes it is
> better to wait a bit and maybe someone would invent the same
> solution 😁 and you don't have to spend a personal time.
>
> So as POC I'm on it, we still need a `pip` and validate some stuff by a pip
> because it is only one officially supported way to install Airflow but if
> something could be improved in the CI then I'm on it, in most cases it
> would be behind of Breeze and many of the contributors might be even not
> noticed that something changed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 at 09:56, Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Actually - of you read that blog post, the strategy is clear - they aim
> to
> > create a comprehensive packaging tooling and improvnts are measured
> (80-100
> > times they claim - I using caching - they (unlike pip) use a lot of local
> > caching including resolving  dependencies).
> >
> > So I think both arguments are not valid if you ask me.
> >
> > wt., 20 lut 2024, 02:37 użytkownik Alexander Shorin <[email protected]>
> > napisał:
> >
> > > I share Andrey's skepticism. It's just yet another tool which has an
> > > unclear development strategy. Should you make it a free testing suite?
> > What
> > > project would receive in exchange? A lot of words about being faster,
> but
> > > how much? Are these milliseconds worth to change the stable tool with a
> > new
> > > one? And will it notably improve something?
> > >
> > > I think it's worth to try it just for fun and provide feedback, but
> it'll
> > > have to pass a long road to become such stable as pip.
> > >
> > > --
> > > ,,,^..^,,,
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 3:06 AM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My opinion:
> > > >
> > > > I think there is a place for a number of such tools. For a long time
> > the
> > > > packaging team and `pip` team have been working not only on `pip`
> > > > implementation but also (and most importantly) to make sure that what
> > > `pip`
> > > > does is to be the beacon of standardisation of packaging APIs and
> PEPs.
> > > It
> > > > will never IMHO have a lot of the fancy features that other tools
> might
> > > > provide (like the ones I mentioned). It will always be there to
> provide
> > > the
> > > > robust and solid CLI to run all packaging things, but there are
> plenty
> > of
> > > > opportunities to provide improved or modified, or more (or less)
> > > > opinionated ways of doing things that are addressing some cases that
> > > `pip`
> > > > team simply will not be able or willing to handle, preferring "pure"
> > > > standard approach vs. implement all the optional things. For example
> > the
> > > > way how pre-releases are handled can be improved to be more
> selective.
> > > The
> > > > PEP describing it gives the tools an option to add more fancy
> > behaviours
> > > > (some of which we could find useful in our CI tooling). Should `pip`
> > > > implement those - I don't think so. It would distract maintainers
> from
> > > > other more important things. It is quite ok to use other tooling in
> > > places
> > > > like our CI, where they do some parts of the installation better.
> > > >
> > > > For me `pip` is going more into the direction of `usable reference
> > > > implementation of package installed` - any standard/ PEP will not
> > matter
> > > if
> > > > `pip` does not implement it. But others might go in different
> > directions
> > > > and implement some less popular features and do it better, faster,
> with
> > > > greater flexibility. IMHO it's a win-win.
> > > >
> > > > J.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 11:40 PM Andrey Anshin <
> > [email protected]
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yesterday my friend shared with me that tool and I've been told
> that
> > > more
> > > > > presumably it would be a niche tool. I've been told "who needs yet
> > > > another
> > > > > installer which stands to resolve all your problems' '.
> > > > > I guess I was wrong?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 at 00:53, Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey everyone,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Few days ago the ruff creators have released a new tool uv -
> which
> > is
> > > > an
> > > > > > extremely fast (written in rust) and fully featured tool
> generally
> > > > fully
> > > > > > compatible with `pip`.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Blog post here: https://astral.sh/blog/uv
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It looks like It has a number of things that would make our CI
> > cases
> > > > and
> > > > > > tooling quite a bit faster and better including a few things
> that I
> > > > have
> > > > > > implemented some workarounds for and some that I have not
> > > > > > implemented because `pip` had no good solution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I looked at the docs and it solves some problems that are
> currently
> > > > > > difficult or impossible to handle with `pip`:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * ability to use overrides (which are constraints on steroids -
> > > > allowing
> > > > > to
> > > > > > override limits specified by the packages - this will be very
> > useful
> > > to
> > > > > > better handle our cases with "chicken-egg" providers (for example
> > > like
> > > > we
> > > > > > had in FAB) where we have pre-release packages depending on each
> > > other
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * different resolution strategies including --resolution=lowest
> > which
> > > > > will
> > > > > > finally allow us to see whether airflow's lower bounds are still
> > > > holding
> > > > > > (i.e. - will our test still pass if we use the lowest supported
> > > version
> > > > > of
> > > > > > our dependencies?  this is something i wanted to do for quite
> some
> > > time
> > > > > and
> > > > > > recorded an issue for that -
> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/airflow/issues/35549
> > > > > > but lack of tooling support made it a wish, with
> > > `--resolution=lowest`
> > > > it
> > > > > > seems like super-easy thing to do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * It is said to be many, many times faster - with better caching
> > and
> > > > > > resolution speeds (similarly like with ruff they claim orders of
> > > > > magnitude
> > > > > > speedups in a number of cases). We can likely make very good use
> of
> > > it
> > > > > and
> > > > > > speed up some parts of our CI workflow significantly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I might likely do some experimenting with uv in our toolchain,
> but
> > > > wanted
> > > > > > to make sure we are all aware of it - and ask if someone has
> > > something
> > > > > > against it (and maybe someone would like to do some work there
> > trying
> > > > it
> > > > > > out - I will be happy to guide others with the dev/tooling
> mindset
> > > and
> > > > > > incline to do some changes there/review PRs and cooperate on
> > testing
> > > > > those
> > > > > > things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's not a user-facing change, and I do not think we want to get
> > rid
> > > of
> > > > > > `pip` as an installation tool in general (in our images and user
> > > facing
> > > > > > side) - it's mostly an internal CI tooling improvement I am
> > thinking
> > > > of.
> > > > > > Maybe at some point in time we can recommend it also for
> > development
> > > > > > workflows, and maybe someday it will gain enough popularity to
> > think
> > > > > about
> > > > > > recommending it to our users, but definitely not now nor in even
> > > > mid-term
> > > > > > future.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let me know what you think.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Repo here: https://github.com/astral-sh/uv
> > > > > >
> > > > > > J.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply via email to