Hi Masatake, Ambari needs rpms of select package just like we need rpms of the Bigdata packages.
At my place, we follow the practice of keeping hdp-select and conf-select as separate scripts as part of a new github project and let bigtop generate rpms from this github source. For opensource community, I think it might not make much sense to create a new git repo just to maintain two select scripts. On the other hand, it becomes bit more complex to keep and manage them within Ambari as well. Moreover the only time they get any changes is when we need to onboard new service to Ambari. Hence I believe keeping these two scripts within bigtop would be bit more simplified for opensource community. Bigtop can generate rpms for *-select package just like it does for bigtop-utils for instance and it’s going to be quite lightweight. On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 5:54 PM Masatake Iwasaki <iwasak...@oss.nttdata.co.jp> wrote: > > Firstly we'll not multiple select's right..? We can have distro-select > and conf-select which can be included as part of the bigtop code. User's > can adopt it and even they can write their own. And user will not deploy > with multiple selects right, as they can get the conflicts.. > > If it is the tool to switch distribution to Bigtop and > does not care about other distributions, > hosting it in Bigtop as bigtop-select would make sense. > If the tool need to care about distribution other than Bigtop, > it should be under Ambari. > > > On 2022/07/04 23:39, Battula, Brahma Reddy wrote: > >> Could you elaborate the reason why we need the *-select if so? > > > > Firstly we'll not multiple select's right..? We can have distro-select > and conf-select which can be included as part of the bigtop code. User's > can adopt it and even they can write their own. And user will not deploy > with multiple selects right, as they can get the conflicts.. > > > >> It does not make sense. > >> While Hadoop rpm/deb are built with Bigtop, Hadoop is independent > project. > > > > As of today rpm's built from bigtop which are used to deploy with ambari > right which is single source...Even projects are independent, Might not be > the best way to create rpm's from project's like Hadoop right? > > > >> In the past, we used to get hdp-select rpm > > > | downloaded and installed from HDP repositories > > > > As HDP repo's will not available now, what's your suggestion for any new > user who want to adopt their own stack..? > > > > > > On 04/07/22, 4:37 PM, "Masatake Iwasaki" <iwasak...@oss.nttdata.co.jp> > wrote: > > > > > > Multiple versions of the same package (deb/rpm) can not be > installed at the same time. > > > I dn't think, we'll required to install multiple versions same > time. Even this can be handled. > > > > Could you elaborate the reason why we need the *-select if so? > > > > > > > IMO, as components rpm's are build with bigtop, having it in > bigtop will be perfect choice. As we need to change the spec's. > > > > It does not make sense. > > While Hadoop rpm/deb are built with Bigtop, Hadoop is independent > project. > > The following description implies that the *-select is updated > along with Ambari > > and Ambari is the perfect place to host it. > > > > | These scripts are a basic necessity in the Ambari framework for > the > > | installation of various Bigdata packages. The only major changes > they would > > | receive is when we onboard new services and components to Ambari, > else they > > | usually do not receive updates. In the past, we used to get > hdp-select rpm > > | downloaded and installed from HDP repositories. > > > > > > On 2022/07/04 19:35, Battula, Brahma Reddy wrote: > > >> Multiple versions of the same package (deb/rpm) can not be > installed at the same time. > > > I dn't think, we'll required to install multiple versions same > time. Even this can be handled. > > > Anyway Bigtop will be used to create the RPM's not for deploying > the cluster with ambari now. > > > > > >> I feel hdp-select/bdp-select should belongs to Ambari > > >> since it is assuming the convention specific to HDP/BDP/Ambari. > > > > We can easily add packaging for the code under Ambari > > > > (as ambari-bdp-select for example) based on the existing > stuff under > > > > bigtop-packages/*/ambari. > > > > > > IMO, as components rpm's are build with bigtop, having it in > bigtop will be perfect choice. As we need to change the spec's. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 03/07/22, 9:56 AM, "Masatake Iwasaki" < > iwasak...@oss.nttdata.co.jp> wrote: > > > > > > > For example, assuming that the following stack is > installed: > > > > > > > > /usr/hdp/SOME_VERSION/hadoop/... > > > > /spark/... > > > > /zookeeper/... > > > > > > Multiple versions of the same package (deb/rpm) can not be > installed at the same time. > > > IIRC, HDP uses convention in which the product version is > part of package name > > > for addressing this. like:: > > > > > > $ rpm -qi hadoop_2_6_1_0_129 > > > Name : hadoop_2_6_1_0_129 > > > Version : 2.7.3.2.6.1.0 > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > So if we accept bdp-select, we also have to develop a new > feature to > > > > change install directories of the packages, > > > > keeping the current default for avoiding user-facing > incompatibility. > > > > Otherwise bdp-select itself is useless. > > > > > > I don't like to bring the awkward package name convention to > Bigtop > > > at least by default. > > > > > > I feel hdp-select/bdp-select should belongs to Ambari > > > since it is assuming the convention specific to > HDP/BDP/Ambari. > > > We can easily add packaging for the code under Ambari > > > (as ambari-bdp-select for example) based on the existing > stuff under > > > bigtop-packages/*/ambari. > > > > > > > > > Masatake Iwasaki > > > > > > On 2022/07/03 7:17, Kengo Seki wrote: > > > > Thank you for proposing this, Viraj and Brahma. > > > > This proposal may feel sudden to someone, so let me > explain some context, > > > > mainly to the Bigtop community. > > > > > > > > Ambari went to Attic once due to inactivity, > > > > but some of its users and developers are reviving it now. > > > > From the Bigtop community, Roman and Evans undertook the > role of > > > > initial PMC members, > > > > and Jun, Yuqi, Ganesh, Masatake, and I are also going to > support it. > > > > > > > > The default stack of Ambari was HDP, but it has gone > behind paywall, > > > > so we have to add an alternative stack in the next release > of Ambari. > > > > Viraj and Brahma are planning to leverage Bigtop packages > for that purpose, > > > > and that stack is tentatively named BDP (BigData Platform). > > > > > > > > We would also like to take over a feature called > hdp-select, > > > > which enables users to switch the current stack easily > with symlink. > > > > For example, assuming that the following stack is > installed: > > > > > > > > /usr/hdp/SOME_VERSION/hadoop/... > > > > /spark/... > > > > /zookeeper/... > > > > > > > > /etc/hadoop, /var/lib/hadoop, /usr/lib/hadoop are symlinks > of > > > > /usr/hdp/SOME_VERSION/hadoop/etc, > /usr/hdp/SOME_VERSION/hadoop/var/lib, > > > > /usr/hdp/SOME_VERSION/hadoop/usr/lib respectively. > > > > > > > > Then the new stack is installed under /usr/hdp/NEW_VERSION, > > > > users can run hdp-select to switch the symlinks to the new > directories > > > > for upgrading the stack. > > > > (Is my understanding correct? Correct me if I'm wrong, > Viraj and Brahma) > > > > > > > > hdp-select was provided as a RPM/DEB package just like > other packages > > > > HDP provided, > > > > so it is user-friendly to provide bdp-select (the BDP > version of > > > > hdp-select) as well. > > > > This is the background of Viraj's proposal. > > > > > > > > But there is a problem here to leverage Bigtop packages in > this manner. > > > > Bigtop respects Linux's Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, > > > > so it doesn't install files into a single place > (/usr/hdp/VERSION in > > > > the example above), > > > > but directly into /etc, /usr, /var and so on. > > > > So if we accept bdp-select, we also have to develop a new > feature to > > > > change install directories of the packages, > > > > keeping the current default for avoiding user-facing > incompatibility. > > > > Otherwise bdp-select itself is useless. > > > > But it will be a tough work, because installation paths > are hard-coded > > > > in the RPM specs and DEB packaging scripts now. > > > > > > > > Based on the above, how about creating a new branch for > adding hdp-select > > > > and developing the feature to switch installation paths? > > > > After finishing the work on that branch and ensuring that > it works expectedly, > > > > we can merge it into master, I think. > > > > > > > > Kengo Seki <sek...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 4:21 PM Battula, Brahma Reddy > > > > <bbatt...@visa.com.invalid> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Thanks @Viraj Jasani to start discussing on this. > > > >> > > > >> IMO, For upcoming ambari release(2.7.7) , we should have > select other than HDP so that people can start using the ambari without HDP. > > > >> > > > >> I am +1(non-binding) on this approach to have selects in > bigtop code. May be for long term , we can think for tarballs or mpacks > which can go in mabari trunk. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 29/06/22, 10:22 AM, "Viraj Jasani" <vjas...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Hi Ambari/Bigtop dev, > > > >> > > > >> As per the new roadmap of Apache Ambari, we would > like to propose moving > > > >> certain scripts (previously known as hdp-select and > conf-select) to Bigtop > > > >> so that their rpm installation could be managed > independently. > > > >> These scripts are a basic necessity in the Ambari > framework for the > > > >> installation of various Bigdata packages. The only > major changes they would > > > >> receive is when we onboard new services and > components to Ambari, else they > > > >> usually do not receive updates. In the past, we used > to get hdp-select rpm > > > >> downloaded and installed from HDP repositories. > > > >> > > > >> We have still not officially finalized the new > replacement name for > > > >> hdp-select, it would likely be bdp-select (bdp: > BigData Platform). However, > > > >> the purpose of bdp-select and conf-select remains > the same. > > > >> > > > > > >
