> I agree with zexuan's view that no meaningful document modification will not bring community activity.
>From the above 3 PRs, how to define a meaningful change? > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document For users who subscribed to this mailing list, how many of us read carefully or know exactly about this guideline? I agree to read it before involving Apache APISIX's Community, and Community maintainers should lead us to learn about them as well. Best Regards! @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan> Ming Wen <wenm...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:17写道： > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md > > Thanks, > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair > Twitter: _WenMing > > > Zhiyuan Ju <juzhiy...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:11写道： > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers? > > > > In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key > point > > why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know, actually > not. > > > > Best Regards! > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan> > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <spacewan...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道： > > > > > I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before > > contributing. > > > Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value > > > changes which don't bring a real contribution. > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <spacewan...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道： > > > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to > > > Chinese. > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not > > > MUST-to-CHANGE, > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in > my > > > own > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. > > His > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change > > will > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, > > right? > > > I > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity. > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into > > > > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to > > > > Chinese. > > > > > > > > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English > > > > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss > > > > this in the community.** > > > > > > > > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per > > > > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical. > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <spacewan...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道： > > > > > > > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers? > > > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <spacewan...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same > > > thing in other words. The original statement is already correct. > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor > doesn't > > > have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he > > did > > > in the community. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value. > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <juzhiy...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention > Apache > > > APISIX has > > > > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here; > > > > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some > closed > > > PRs which > > > > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments, > > > emmm, I > > > > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or > > > reasonable > > > > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have > a > > > discussion > > > > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to > update > > > the Zipkin > > > > > > > plugin's docs: > > > > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`, > > > because the > > > > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' > doc > > > title; > > > > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a > > > OpenTracing plugin" > > > > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin]( > > > https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin), > > > > > > > which is a distributed tracing system."; > > > > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not > > > familiar with > > > > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference > > > between them, > > > > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it > > > seems that > > > > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954) > > > > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, > but > > > I have to > > > > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one > > > contributor wants > > > > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it? > > After > > > > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I > really > > > hope our > > > > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to > > > review PRs, > > > > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs > your > > > help to > > > > > > > grow and spread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use > > Docusaurus's > > > syntax > > > > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs > > website: > > > > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will > break > > > the > > > > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and > > we > > > could do > > > > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that > point > > > or didn't > > > > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO. > > > > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind > > of > > > PRs, I > > > > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, > Duplicate > > > PRs > > > > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. > I > > > will feel > > > > > > > bad, too :( > > > > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community > like > > > other > > > > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of > issues > > > like > > > > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors? > > > Community is > > > > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to > > > know them > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead > > > him to know > > > > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It > will > > > take much > > > > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our > community > > > grows as > > > > > > > well :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English > to > > > Chinese. > > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not > > > MUST-to-CHANGE, > > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those > changes, > > > in my own > > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to > translate > > > all > > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more > > > smoothly. His > > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of > > > change will > > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX > members, > > > right? I > > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage > > our > > > > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve > in > > > our > > > > > > > community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members, > > > they don't > > > > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" > they > > > know, but > > > > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a > > > "Contribution > > > > > > > Chain". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to > > > Developers, > > > > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community > much > > > better! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed > > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files > > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715 > > > > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin > > > > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team > > > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477 > > > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards! > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ming Wen <wenm...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers > submit; > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there > > > specific issues > > > > > > > > and PRs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair > > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bozhong Yu <imbozh...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that > need > > > to take > > > > > > > > > care of or install > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and > execute > > > make deps, I > > > > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Baoyuan <baoyuan....@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's great. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <spacewan...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 > > > 下午11:04写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test > > cases, > > > but Test > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the > > doc: > > > > > > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <membp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 > > > 下午10:44写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about this title? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan < > > > baoyuan....@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to > > > share how to > > > > > > > > set > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first > line > > > of code, how > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content > > > like this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tzssanggl...@gmail.com> > 于2021年11月24日周三 > > > 下午7:45写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal > > experience. > > > it take my > > > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to > > > share how to > > > > > > > > set > > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first > > line > > > of code, > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug, maybe this would be helpful for newbies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <juzhiy...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 > > > 下午4:26写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community > users > > > asked me > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share > > the > > > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 > > > developers joined > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > and the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth > > for > > > newcomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that > > > developers submit; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can > > > contribute; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache > APISIX > > > and its > > > > > > > > > > products: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that > > lack > > > tech > > > > > > > > > details, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source > > > codes; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and > > > dependencies that > > > > > > > > > need > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > take > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to > > program > > > test > > > > > > > > cases, > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > Test > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers > > run > > > test cases > > > > > > > > > > > locally, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of > > > environmental issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow > > about > > > how to > > > > > > > > > > corporate > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage > > > and mentors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, > > and > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix` > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and > > > frequently, > > > > > > > > attendees > > > > > > > > > > > > > complained > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include > > > Production Best > > > > > > > > > > > Practice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they > > could > > > easily > > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a > > > demo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache > APISIX > > > Dashboard > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > just a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > demo, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We > > > hope it's not > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to > > use > > > it in > > > > > > > > > > > production. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our > > > developers are > > > > > > > > facing, > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! > > For > > > the issues > > > > > > > > > > > above, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis* > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
