Hi Tom, As with most open source projects, developers priorities tend towards scratching their own itches first. I agree though that keeping up with the latest UML spec is probably the highest priority.
Is there a way that a single module could be used both as an ArgoEclipse plugin, and an ArgoUML module? Cheers, Mark On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Tom Morris <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't think anything has changed since this was discussed a year > ago. Some ArgoUML developers are opposed to Eclipse, others are > opposed to change of any form, and I'm opposed to continually > reinventing the wheel when there's not enough manpower to do even the > most basic stuff like track UML versions in a timely fashion. > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Mark Fortner <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I think there are a couple of points that Andreas is making: > > > > He doesn't use Eclipse, so if ArgoEclipse is merely a plugin for an IDE > he > > doesn't use, then it will probably have limited use for him. > > ArgoEclipse is available both as standalone RCP version and as an > Eclipse plugin. The standalone version does have a stripped down > Eclipse framework at its core, but functionally and cosmetically it > looks the same as ArgoUML. The first versions of this were made > available years ago. If Andreas has actually tried it, he hasn't said > so publicly. > > > The same could > > be said of most non-Eclipse users. Although I use Spring Tool Suite (a > sort > > of kitchen-sink Eclipse distribution), I haven't quite figured out > whether > > the extra overhead of adding yet another plugin to IDE is worth any > > performance degradation. > > There's a performance 'degradation' when you start an ArgoUML process > alongside your Eclipse process. The performance impact of a properly > designed Eclipse plugin that isn't being used is limited to reading a > small XML file at startup. It should be less than the overhead of an > additional process. > > > There doesn't seem be a roadmap that indicates when (or if) ArgoEclipse > will > > become the default distribution for ArgoUML. If this is going to happen > > this year, then Bob's statement about not "reinventing the wheel" > probably > > holds. If it's going to be some indefinite time in the future, then it's > > probably worth looking at some short-term solution. Especially if > there's a > > way of generating Eclipse update site XML from it. > > Without anyone working on it, it'll probably never happen. Of all the > Eclipse wheels to reinvent though, I've got to say an app/plugin > market seems a strange one to make the top priority. What about > context sensitive help or everyone's favorite, Undo? > > > Under the rubric of "getting our ducks in order", it would also be useful > if > > there was some discussion about the ArgoEclipse, in particular: > > I'm not sure who the "our" is in this context, but I'm happy to give > you my opinions (inline below). > > > Eclipse has a yearly release train, how will keeping up with that > schedule > > effect the work that currently gets done? > > It has no impact. The ArgoEclipse plugin maintains compatibility with > at least a couple of previous versions, so there's never a dependency > on the latest and great. Eclipse is very good about maintaining > backward compatibility, so old plugins work on new releases. > > > Will ArgoUML be distributed as a plugin, as a separate Eclipse distro, or > > both? > > Both, although it's not really a "distribution" in the IDE sense that > you're probably thinking of. > > > How will the Eclipse RCP framework change ArgoUML's current module > > framework? Presumably, there would need to be some work either to bridge > > the two, or refactor all existing plugins to fit the Eclipse RCP API. > > "All" is a pretty small list, almost entirely focused on code > generation or reverse engineering. Those two groups have Eclipse > extension points defined and the existing plugins work in both modes > (but don't require the heavyweight startup time initialization that > ArgoUML style plugins do). > > > What specific steps do plugin developers need to take in order to turn > their > > existing plugins into Eclipse plugins? Are there any plans to document > this > > in the wiki? > > If it's not already covered in the ArgoEclipse wiki, I'll be happy to > add it, as well as assist any developers who need help in doing the > conversion or coach them on how to define new extension points for > things that aren't covered (one of the things that Eclipse is much > more discipline about is dependency management and preventing code > from arbitrarily reaching into non-public APIs, so there needs to be > an API defined, unlike ArgoUML where anything is fair game). > > > Are there any plans to post a roadmap for some of the upcoming releases? > > This would help set some expectations, and keep everyone focused in the > > same general direction. > > My personal roadmap is to either make a decision to recruit seriously > for ArgoEclipse or abandon it. The ArgoUML team is focused on other > priorities, so any assistance needs to come from outside. Meanwhile > the Papyrus team in France is plugging away on building a full fledged > UML tool that will be bundled with the Eclipse. When they finish, > that will make the whole idea of ArgoEclipse much less interesting to > potential users. > > > Regardless of the approach we end up using to making modules > "discoverable", > > the main thing we're all trying to achieve is improved ease of use and > > improved ease of development. > > That's not my impression of what developers' top priorities are, but I > could just be out of touch. > > Tom > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://argouml.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=450&dsMessageId=2699033 > > To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [ > [email protected]]. > To be allowed to post to the list contact the mailing list moderator, > email: [[email protected]] > ------------------------------------------------------ http://argouml.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=450&dsMessageId=2699116 To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [[email protected]]. 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