I also learned today that Apache Spark has dropped support for Java 8 and 11 for their next release (v4.0)[1]. Should we consider dropping Java 11 as well?
[1]https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/43005 -Dane On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:30 PM Dane Pitkin <d...@voltrondata.com> wrote: > I created a GH issue[1] proposing the removal of Java 8 support. It > would target the Arrow v15 release (~Jan 2024). > > IMO it would be in the best interest of the project for two major reasons: > 1. Unblock the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)[2] implementation. > 2. Unblock Arrow from upgrading dependencies that no longer support Java > 8. (See [1] for examples) > > Since Arrow Java has been quite stable, will Java 8 users be okay with > pinning Arrow to the last supported release (v14) if the Arrow project > ultimately decides to remove Java 8 support? > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/arrow/issues/38051 > [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform_Module_System > > -Dane > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 12:26 PM Dane Pitkin <d...@voltrondata.com> wrote: > >> - As a low level library, users have to add specific flags to use >>> Java 9 and up with Arrow to resolve issues with java.nio. This has >>> been annoying for our customers constantly. If this is not resolved, >>> I would say we may see a lot of complaints in the future. >>> >> I filed issue 37739[1] to track this, but it sounds like this can't be >> changed until Java 21 or 24. >> >> - It seems that the EOL of Java 8 from Oracle is Dec 2030 [2]. A lot >>> users will still stay on it for a long time. At least this is true for >>> our >>> customers. So I am afraid we may not upgrade to newer versions >>> of Arrow if it no longer supports Java 8. >>> >> Java 8 does have a long Extended Support timeline, but a recent >> report shows Java 11 increasing in adoption vs Java 8. "More than 56% of >> applications are now using Java 11 in production (up from 48% in 2022 and >> 11% in 2020). Java 8 is a close second with nearly 33% of applications >> using it in production (down from 46% in 2022)."[2] >> I expect the Java ecosystem will find a way to move on from Java 8 much >> sooner than 2030, meaning many of Arrow's dependencies could drop support >> for Java 8 before then. At this point, Arrow may be forced to support a >> higher minimum Java version. >> >> That being said, it's hard to argue against real use cases. I'd be >> curious to hear what Java version other users of Arrow are using (and if >> there is a timeline to upgrade if on Java 8). >> >> >> [1]https://github.com/apache/arrow/issues/37739 >> [2] >> https://newrelic.com/sites/default/files/2023-04/new-relic-2023-state-of-the-java-ecosystem-2023-04-20.pdf >> >> >> -Dane >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 11:45 AM Gang Wu <ust...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for bringing this up! >>> >>> I have two concerns of dropping Java 8 support: >>> - As a low level library, users have to add specific flags [1] to use >>> Java 9 and up with Arrow to resolve issues with java.nio. This has >>> been annoying for our customers constantly. If this is not resolved, >>> I would say we may see a lot of complaints in the future. >>> - It seems that the EOL of Java 8 from Oracle is Dec 2030 [2]. A lot >>> users will still stay on it for a long time. At least this is true for >>> our >>> customers. So I am afraid we may not upgrade to newer versions >>> of Arrow if it no longer supports Java 8. >>> >>> [1] https://arrow.apache.org/docs/java/install.html#java-compatibility >>> [2] >>> https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/java-se-support-roadmap.html >>> >>> Best, >>> Gang >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 11:14 PM David Dali Susanibar Arce < >>> davi.sar...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Hi Arrow Java developers, >>> > >>> > I would like to propose a timeline for dropping support for Java 8: >>> > - Propose to drop JDK8 in Arrow v15 (2 releases from now) >>> > - JDK 21 support will be added before removal of JDK8 >>> > >>> > Why? >>> > - Java 8 no longer receives Premier Support (1) >>> > - Some Arrow Java (test) dependencies have already started to drop >>> > Java 8 support, forcing us to pin to older packager versions >>> > >>> > Also note: >>> > - gRPC Java may drop support for a JDK version when that version is no >>> > longer receiving Premier Support from Oracle (2), more detail at Java >>> > 8 / Java 11 support timeline in gRPC here (3) >>> > - Spark plans to tentatively drop JDK 8 support in Spark 4.0 (4), >>> > which has a release timeline of approximately 2024-06 (5). Is it fine >>> > for us to drop JDK 8 support before spark? >>> > >>> > (1) >>> https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/java-se-support-roadmap.html >>> > (2) >>> > >>> https://github.com/grpc/proposal/pull/283/files#:~:text=gRPC%20Java%20may,support%5D >>> > . >>> > (3) https://groups.google.com/g/grpc-io/c/-XK6Kd_19YQ/m/-4s07TzdAgAJ >>> > (4) https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-44112 >>> > (5) https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@spark.apache.org/msg30460.html >>> > >>> > Consider: >>> > - JDK8 deprecation is currently not mandatory. We simply want to >>> > devote more time to development of Java LTS versions 11, 17 and 21. >>> > - Java 11 is dropping Premier Support this month. >>> > >>> > Best regards, >>> > >>> > -- >>> > David Susanibar >>> > >>> >>
