+1 to moving forward with this plan.

(FWIW, this seems *less* backwards incompatible than, say, moving from
Spark 1 to Spark 2, which was decided much quicker. I suppose the
Spark change has a lower bound on the number of users it could impact
though.)

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Eugene Kirpichov <[email protected]> wrote:
> Okay, then let's go forward. Seems that we should:
> - Open a new poll on user@, in light of 2.2 having been released
> - Open a twitter poll
> - Tweet that there's also a poll going on on user@
> - Runner authors will reach out to respective runner user communities
> - 2 weeks later we gather results and decide
> ?
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:16 AM Ismaël Mejía <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> +1 For Eugene’s arguments waiting for Beam 3.0 seems still far away,
>> and starting to improve Beam to offer a Java 8 friendly experience
>> seems like an excellent idea.
>>
>> I understand the backwards compatibility argument. We should do the
>> poll in twitter + try to reach more users for comments. If you
>> consider that it is worth, I can open a second poll at user@.
>>
>> In any case we should try to move forward, even if we have more than
>> 5% of users who want to stay on Java 7 we can consider to maintain
>> minor releases of a backwards compatible version where we can backport
>> only critical fixes e.g. security/data related errors but nothing new,
>> in case some user really needs to have them. Of course this can be
>> some extra work (to be discussed).
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> > +1, and sorry again, I thought we got an consensus.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > JB
>> >
>> > On 12/05/2017 07:10 AM, Kenneth Knowles wrote:
>> >>
>> >> +1 to the poll and also to Reuven's point.
>> >>
>> >> Those without a support contract would have been using JDK 7 without
>> >> security updates for years. IMO it seems harmful, as a netizen, to
>> >> encourage
>> >> its use/existence.
>> >>
>> >> If there's no noise from the prior thread, then I would assume no one
>> >> on
>> >> user@ has any objection. Anyone else with customers should reach out to
>> >> them.
>> >>
>> >> Kenn
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Reuven Lax <[email protected]
>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>     Technically it's a backwards-incompatible change, however if we are
>> >>     convinced the risk is low we could do it.
>> >>
>> >>     As mentioned on the original thread, it's not clear that all Beam
>> >> users read
>> >>     user@ - e.g. most Dataflow users definitely do not. I think we need
>> >> to
>> >>     separately reach out to users of each runner through
>> >> runner-specific
>> >> channels.
>> >>
>> >>     Reuven
>> >>
>> >>     On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Eugene Kirpichov
>> >> <[email protected]
>> >>     <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>         On the original thread
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2e1890c62d9f022f09b20e9f12f130fe9f1042e391979087f725d2e0@%3Cuser.beam.apache.org%3E
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2e1890c62d9f022f09b20e9f12f130fe9f1042e391979087f725d2e0@%3Cuser.beam.apache.org%3E>
>> >> ,
>> >>         Robert and Ismaël were in favor of no major version change
>> >> [Ismaël
>> >>         said:/Also I am afraid that if we wait/
>> >>         /until we have enough changes to switch Beam to a new major
>> >> version the
>> >>         switch to Java 8 will happen too late, probably after Java 8's
>> >> end
>> >> of
>> >>         life. And I am not exaggerating, Java 8 is planned to EOL next
>> >> march
>> >>         2018!/]; JB and now Reuven are in favor of a major version
>> >> change;
>> >>
>> >>         nobody so far argued against switching to Java8 in general.
>> >>
>> >>         I'm personally in favor of no major version change (i.e. not
>> >> waiting
>> >>         until all other large changes for Beam 3.0 converge, which will
>> >> likely
>> >>         be many months), because:
>> >>         - Reasons Ismaël cited; plus the reason that most people are
>> >> likely
>> >>         already using Java 8.
>> >>         - Going Java8-only earlier will make other Beam 3.0 APIs better
>> >> for
>> >>         Java8 users, because we (Beam contributors) will have
>> >> experience
>> >> working
>> >>         with them within the SDK in Java8 (e.g. writing tests with use
>> >> of
>> >>         lambdas and noticing whether it's clunky, or whether some other
>> >> Beam
>> >>         APIs need better Java8 support).
>> >>         - Going Java8 will make it more reasonable to include (mostly
>> >> or
>> >> only)
>> >>         Java8 snippets in Beam documentation, which will obviously look
>> >> more
>> >>         concise and attractive, addressing one of the common concerns
>> >> of
>> >> Beam
>> >>         users that it has a heavyweight API compared to
>> >> functional-style
>> >> APIs of
>> >>         Spark etc.
>> >>
>> >>         I think resolving this via a poll of users would be reasonable.
>> >> I'd
>> >>         suggest e.g. the following phrasing:
>> >>
>> >>         Apache Beam is considering dropping support for Java 7, and
>> >> supporting
>> >>         only Java 8 and above in a subsequent release. How would it
>> >> impact
>> >> your
>> >>         usage of Beam?
>> >>         - I am already using only Java 8+ for building my Beam code
>> >>         - I am using Java 7 for building my Beam code, but I would have
>> >> no
>> >>         trouble switching to Java 8
>> >>         - I am using Java 7 for building my Beam code, and dropping
>> >> Java 7
>> >> would
>> >>         be a blocker or hindrance to adopting the new release for me
>> >>
>> >>         We could tweet this poll on Apache Beam twitter and publish on
>> >> user@,
>> >>         and, say, if we receive 5% or fewer votes for option 3 after
>> >> keeping it
>> >>         open for 2 weeks, then adopt Java 8 without a major version
>> >> change.
>> >>
>> >>         WDYT?
>> >>
>> >>         On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 8:34 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> >> <[email protected]
>> >>         <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>             Good idea ! Definitely +1
>> >>
>> >>             Regards
>> >>             JB
>> >>
>> >>             On 12/05/2017 05:25 AM, Reuven Lax wrote:
>> >>              > We should bring this up on the Beam 3.0 thread. Since
>> >> it's
>> >>             technically a
>> >>              > backwards-incompatible change, it might make a good item
>> >> for Beam
>> >>             3.0.
>> >>              >
>> >>              > Reuven
>> >>              >
>> >>              > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 8:20 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> >>             <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>              > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>              >
>> >>              >     My apologizes, I thought we had a consensus already.
>> >>              >
>> >>              >     Regards
>> >>              >     JB
>> >>              >
>> >>              >     On 12/04/2017 11:22 PM, Eugene Kirpichov wrote:
>> >>              >
>> >>              >         Thanks JB for sending the detailed notes about
>> >> new
>> >> stuff
>> >>             in 2.2.0! A lot
>> >>              >         of exciting things indeed.
>> >>              >
>> >>              >         Regarding Java 8: I thought our consensus was to
>> >> have the
>> >>             release notes
>> >>              >         say that we're *considering* going Java8-only,
>> >> and
>> >> use
>> >>             that to get more
>> >>              >         opinions from the user community - but I can't
>> >> find
>> >> the
>> >>             emails that made
>> >>              >         me think so.
>> >>              >
>> >>              >         +Ismaël Mejía <mailto:[email protected]
>> >>             <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
>> >>             <mailto:[email protected]>>> - do
>> >>              >         you think we should formally conclude the vote
>> >> on
>> >> the
>> >>             thread [VOTE]
>> >>              >         [DISCUSSION] Remove support for Java 7?
>> >>              >         Or should we take more steps - e.g. perhaps
>> >> tweet a
>> >> link
>> >>             to that thread
>> >>              >         from the Beam twitter account, ask people to
>> >> chime
>> >> in,
>> >>             and wait for say
>> >>              >         2 weeks before declaring a conclusion?
>> >>              >
>> >>              >         Let's also have a process JIRA for going Java8.
>> >> I've
>> >>             filed one:
>> >>              > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-3285
>> >>             <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-3285>
>> >>              >         <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-3285
>> >>             <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-3285>>
>> >>              >
>> >>              >         On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:58 AM Jean-Baptiste
>> >> Onofré
>> >>             <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>              >         <mailto:[email protected]
>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> >>             <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>              >         <mailto:[email protected]
>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>>>>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>              >
>> >>              >              Just an important note that we forgot to
>> >> mention.
>> >>              >
>> >>              >              !! The 2.2.0 release will be the last one
>> >> supporting
>> >>             Spark 1.x and
>> >>              >         Java 7 !!
>> >>              >
>> >>              >              Starting from Beam 2.3.0, the Spark runner
>> >> will work
>> >>             only with
>> >>              >         Spark 2.x and we
>> >>              >              will focus only Java 8.
>> >>              >
>> >>              >              Regards
>> >>              >              JB
>> >>              >
>> >>              >              On 12/04/2017 10:15 AM, Jean-Baptiste
>> >> Onofré
>> >> wrote:
>> >>              >               > Thanks Reuven !
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >               > I would like to emphasize on some
>> >> highlights in
>> >>             2.2.0 release:
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >               > - New IOs have been introduced:
>> >>              >               >   * TikaIO leveraging Apache Tika,
>> >> allowing
>> >> the
>> >>             deal with a lot
>> >>              >         of different
>> >>              >               > data formats
>> >>              >               >   * RedisIO to read and write key/value
>> >> pairs
>> >>             from a Redis
>> >>              >         server. This
>> >>              >              IO will
>> >>              >               > be soon extended to Redis PubSub.
>> >>              >               >   * FileIO provides transforms for
>> >> working
>> >> with
>> >>             files (raw).
>> >>              >         Especially, it
>> >>              >               > provides matching file patterns and read
>> >> on
>> >>             patterns. It can be
>> >>              >         easily
>> >>              >              extended
>> >>              >               > for a specific format (like we do in
>> >> AvroIO
>> >> or
>> >>             TextIO now).
>> >>              >               >   * SolrIO to interact with Apache Solr
>> >> (Lucene)
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >               > - On the other hand, improvements have
>> >> been
>> >>             performed on
>> >>              >         existing IOs:
>> >>              >               >   * We started to introduce readAll
>> >> pattern
>> >> in
>> >>             IOs (AvroIO,
>> >>              >         TextIO, JdbcIO,
>> >>              >               > ...), allowing to pass "request"
>> >> arguments
>> >> via an
>> >>             input PCollection.
>> >>              >               >   * ElasticsearchIO has an improved
>> >> support
>> >> of
>> >>             different
>> >>              >         Elasticsearch
>> >>              >              version
>> >>              >               > (including Elasticsearch 5.x). It also
>> >> now
>> >>             supports SSL/TLS.
>> >>              >               >   * HBaseIO is now able to do dynamic
>> >> work
>> >>             rebalancing
>> >>              >               >   * KinesisIO uses a more accurate
>> >> watermark
>> >>             (based on
>> >>              >              approximateArrivalTimestamp)
>> >>              >               >   * TextIO now supports custom delimiter
>> >> and like
>> >>             AvroIO,
>> >>              >         supports the
>> >>              >              readAll
>> >>              >               > pattern,
>> >>              >               >   * Performance improvements on JdbcIO
>> >> when
>> >> it
>> >>             has to read lot
>> >>              >         of rows
>> >>              >               >   * Kafka write supports Exactly-Once
>> >> pattern
>> >>             (introduce in
>> >>              >         Kafka 0.11.x)
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >               > - A new DSL has been introduced: the SQL
>> >> DSL !
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >               > We are now focus on 2.3.0 release with
>> >> new
>> >>             improvements and
>> >>              >         features !
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >               > Stay tuned !
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >               > JB on behalf of the Apache Beam
>> >> community.
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >               > On 12/02/2017 11:40 PM, Reuven Lax
>> >> wrote:
>> >>              >               >> The Apache Beam community is pleased to
>> >> announce the
>> >>              >         availability of the
>> >>              >               >> 2.2.0 release.
>> >>              >               >>
>> >>              >               >> This release adds support for generic
>> >> file
>> >>             sources and sinks
>> >>              >         (beyond TextIO
>> >>              >               >> and AvroIO) using FileIO, including
>> >> support for
>> >>             dynamic
>> >>              >         filenames using
>> >>              >               >> readAll; this allows streaming
>> >> pipelines
>> >> to now
>> >>             read from files by
>> >>              >               >> continuously monitoring a directory for
>> >> new
>> >>             filw. Many other
>> >>              >         IOs are
>> >>              >              improved,
>> >>              >               >> notably including exactly-once support
>> >> for
>> >> the
>> >>             Kafka sink. Initial
>> >>              >              support for
>> >>              >               >> BEAM-SQL is also included in this
>> >> release.
>> >> For a
>> >>             more-complete
>> >>              >         list of major
>> >>              >               >> changes in the release, please refer to
>> >> the
>> >>             release notes [2].
>> >>              >               >>
>> >>              >               >> The 2.2.0 release is now the
>> >> recommended
>> >>             version; we encourage
>> >>              >         everyone to
>> >>              >               >> upgrade from any earlier releases.
>> >>              >               >>
>> >>              >               >> We’d like to invite everyone to try out
>> >> Apache
>> >>             Beam today and
>> >>              >         consider
>> >>              >               >> joining our vibrant community. We
>> >> welcome
>> >> feedback,
>> >>              >         contribution and
>> >>              >               >> participation through our mailing
>> >> lists,
>> >> issue
>> >>             tracker, pull
>> >>              >         requests, and
>> >>              >               >> events.
>> >>              >               >>
>> >>              >               >> - Reuven Lax, on behalf of the Apache
>> >> Beam
>> >>             community.
>> >>              >               >>
>> >>              >               >> [1]
>> >>             https://beam.apache.org/get-started/downloads/
>> >>             <https://beam.apache.org/get-started/downloads/>
>> >>              >         <https://beam.apache.org/get-started/downloads/
>> >>             <https://beam.apache.org/get-started/downloads/>>
>> >>              >               >> [2]
>> >>              >               >>
>> >>              >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12319527&version=12341044
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12319527&version=12341044>
>> >>              >
>> >>
>> >> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12319527&version=12341044
>> >>
>> >> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12319527&version=12341044>>
>> >>              >               >>
>> >>              >               >
>> >>              >
>> >>              >              --
>> >>              >              Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> >>              > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>             <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> >>              >         <mailto:[email protected]
>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>             <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
>> >>              > http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> >>              >              Talend - http://www.talend.com
>> >>              >
>> >>              >
>> >>              >     --
>> >>              >     Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> >>              > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>             <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> >>              > http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> >>              >     Talend - http://www.talend.com
>> >>              >
>> >>              >
>> >>
>> >>             --
>> >>             Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> >>             [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>             http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> >>             Talend - http://www.talend.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> > [email protected]
>> > http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> > Talend - http://www.talend.com

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