+1 on moving forward with the plan suggested by kirpichov@

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Robert Bradshaw <[email protected]> wrote:

> +1 to moving forward with this plan.
>
> (FWIW, this seems *less* backwards incompatible than, say, moving from
> Spark 1 to Spark 2, which was decided much quicker. I suppose the
> Spark change has a lower bound on the number of users it could impact
> though.)
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Eugene Kirpichov <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > Okay, then let's go forward. Seems that we should:
> > - Open a new poll on user@, in light of 2.2 having been released
> > - Open a twitter poll
> > - Tweet that there's also a poll going on on user@
> > - Runner authors will reach out to respective runner user communities
> > - 2 weeks later we gather results and decide
> > ?
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:16 AM Ismaël Mejía <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 For Eugene’s arguments waiting for Beam 3.0 seems still far away,
> >> and starting to improve Beam to offer a Java 8 friendly experience
> >> seems like an excellent idea.
> >>
> >> I understand the backwards compatibility argument. We should do the
> >> poll in twitter + try to reach more users for comments. If you
> >> consider that it is worth, I can open a second poll at user@.
> >>
> >> In any case we should try to move forward, even if we have more than
> >> 5% of users who want to stay on Java 7 we can consider to maintain
> >> minor releases of a backwards compatible version where we can backport
> >> only critical fixes e.g. security/data related errors but nothing new,
> >> in case some user really needs to have them. Of course this can be
> >> some extra work (to be discussed).
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > +1, and sorry again, I thought we got an consensus.
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> > JB
> >> >
> >> > On 12/05/2017 07:10 AM, Kenneth Knowles wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> +1 to the poll and also to Reuven's point.
> >> >>
> >> >> Those without a support contract would have been using JDK 7 without
> >> >> security updates for years. IMO it seems harmful, as a netizen, to
> >> >> encourage
> >> >> its use/existence.
> >> >>
> >> >> If there's no noise from the prior thread, then I would assume no one
> >> >> on
> >> >> user@ has any objection. Anyone else with customers should reach
> out to
> >> >> them.
> >> >>
> >> >> Kenn
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Reuven Lax <[email protected]
> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>     Technically it's a backwards-incompatible change, however if we
> are
> >> >>     convinced the risk is low we could do it.
> >> >>
> >> >>     As mentioned on the original thread, it's not clear that all Beam
> >> >> users read
> >> >>     user@ - e.g. most Dataflow users definitely do not. I think we
> need
> >> >> to
> >> >>     separately reach out to users of each runner through
> >> >> runner-specific
> >> >> channels.
> >> >>
> >> >>     Reuven
> >> >>
> >> >>     On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Eugene Kirpichov
> >> >> <[email protected]
> >> >>     <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>         On the original thread
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2e1890c62d9f022f09b20e9f12f130
> fe9f1042e391979087f725d2e0@%3Cuser.beam.apache.org%3E
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2e1890c62d9f022f09b20e9f12f130
> fe9f1042e391979087f725d2e0@%3Cuser.beam.apache.org%3E>
> >> >> ,
> >> >>         Robert and Ismaël were in favor of no major version change
> >> >> [Ismaël
> >> >>         said:/Also I am afraid that if we wait/
> >> >>         /until we have enough changes to switch Beam to a new major
> >> >> version the
> >> >>         switch to Java 8 will happen too late, probably after Java
> 8's
> >> >> end
> >> >> of
> >> >>         life. And I am not exaggerating, Java 8 is planned to EOL
> next
> >> >> march
> >> >>         2018!/]; JB and now Reuven are in favor of a major version
> >> >> change;
> >> >>
> >> >>         nobody so far argued against switching to Java8 in general.
> >> >>
> >> >>         I'm personally in favor of no major version change (i.e. not
> >> >> waiting
> >> >>         until all other large changes for Beam 3.0 converge, which
> will
> >> >> likely
> >> >>         be many months), because:
> >> >>         - Reasons Ismaël cited; plus the reason that most people are
> >> >> likely
> >> >>         already using Java 8.
> >> >>         - Going Java8-only earlier will make other Beam 3.0 APIs
> better
> >> >> for
> >> >>         Java8 users, because we (Beam contributors) will have
> >> >> experience
> >> >> working
> >> >>         with them within the SDK in Java8 (e.g. writing tests with
> use
> >> >> of
> >> >>         lambdas and noticing whether it's clunky, or whether some
> other
> >> >> Beam
> >> >>         APIs need better Java8 support).
> >> >>         - Going Java8 will make it more reasonable to include (mostly
> >> >> or
> >> >> only)
> >> >>         Java8 snippets in Beam documentation, which will obviously
> look
> >> >> more
> >> >>         concise and attractive, addressing one of the common concerns
> >> >> of
> >> >> Beam
> >> >>         users that it has a heavyweight API compared to
> >> >> functional-style
> >> >> APIs of
> >> >>         Spark etc.
> >> >>
> >> >>         I think resolving this via a poll of users would be
> reasonable.
> >> >> I'd
> >> >>         suggest e.g. the following phrasing:
> >> >>
> >> >>         Apache Beam is considering dropping support for Java 7, and
> >> >> supporting
> >> >>         only Java 8 and above in a subsequent release. How would it
> >> >> impact
> >> >> your
> >> >>         usage of Beam?
> >> >>         - I am already using only Java 8+ for building my Beam code
> >> >>         - I am using Java 7 for building my Beam code, but I would
> have
> >> >> no
> >> >>         trouble switching to Java 8
> >> >>         - I am using Java 7 for building my Beam code, and dropping
> >> >> Java 7
> >> >> would
> >> >>         be a blocker or hindrance to adopting the new release for me
> >> >>
> >> >>         We could tweet this poll on Apache Beam twitter and publish
> on
> >> >> user@,
> >> >>         and, say, if we receive 5% or fewer votes for option 3 after
> >> >> keeping it
> >> >>         open for 2 weeks, then adopt Java 8 without a major version
> >> >> change.
> >> >>
> >> >>         WDYT?
> >> >>
> >> >>         On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 8:34 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> >> >> <[email protected]
> >> >>         <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>             Good idea ! Definitely +1
> >> >>
> >> >>             Regards
> >> >>             JB
> >> >>
> >> >>             On 12/05/2017 05:25 AM, Reuven Lax wrote:
> >> >>              > We should bring this up on the Beam 3.0 thread. Since
> >> >> it's
> >> >>             technically a
> >> >>              > backwards-incompatible change, it might make a good
> item
> >> >> for Beam
> >> >>             3.0.
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              > Reuven
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 8:20 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> >> >>             <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> >>              > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >     My apologizes, I thought we had a consensus
> already.
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >     Regards
> >> >>              >     JB
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >     On 12/04/2017 11:22 PM, Eugene Kirpichov wrote:
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >         Thanks JB for sending the detailed notes about
> >> >> new
> >> >> stuff
> >> >>             in 2.2.0! A lot
> >> >>              >         of exciting things indeed.
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >         Regarding Java 8: I thought our consensus was
> to
> >> >> have the
> >> >>             release notes
> >> >>              >         say that we're *considering* going Java8-only,
> >> >> and
> >> >> use
> >> >>             that to get more
> >> >>              >         opinions from the user community - but I can't
> >> >> find
> >> >> the
> >> >>             emails that made
> >> >>              >         me think so.
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >         +Ismaël Mejía <mailto:[email protected]
> >> >>             <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
> >> >>             <mailto:[email protected]>>> - do
> >> >>              >         you think we should formally conclude the vote
> >> >> on
> >> >> the
> >> >>             thread [VOTE]
> >> >>              >         [DISCUSSION] Remove support for Java 7?
> >> >>              >         Or should we take more steps - e.g. perhaps
> >> >> tweet a
> >> >> link
> >> >>             to that thread
> >> >>              >         from the Beam twitter account, ask people to
> >> >> chime
> >> >> in,
> >> >>             and wait for say
> >> >>              >         2 weeks before declaring a conclusion?
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >         Let's also have a process JIRA for going
> Java8.
> >> >> I've
> >> >>             filed one:
> >> >>              > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-3285
> >> >>             <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-3285>
> >> >>              >         <https://issues.apache.org/
> jira/browse/BEAM-3285
> >> >>             <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-3285>>
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >         On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:58 AM Jean-Baptiste
> >> >> Onofré
> >> >>             <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> >>              >         <mailto:[email protected]
> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> >>             <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> >>              >         <mailto:[email protected]
> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>>>>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >              Just an important note that we forgot to
> >> >> mention.
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >              !! The 2.2.0 release will be the last one
> >> >> supporting
> >> >>             Spark 1.x and
> >> >>              >         Java 7 !!
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >              Starting from Beam 2.3.0, the Spark
> runner
> >> >> will work
> >> >>             only with
> >> >>              >         Spark 2.x and we
> >> >>              >              will focus only Java 8.
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >              Regards
> >> >>              >              JB
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >              On 12/04/2017 10:15 AM, Jean-Baptiste
> >> >> Onofré
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>              >               > Thanks Reuven !
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >               > I would like to emphasize on some
> >> >> highlights in
> >> >>             2.2.0 release:
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >               > - New IOs have been introduced:
> >> >>              >               >   * TikaIO leveraging Apache Tika,
> >> >> allowing
> >> >> the
> >> >>             deal with a lot
> >> >>              >         of different
> >> >>              >               > data formats
> >> >>              >               >   * RedisIO to read and write
> key/value
> >> >> pairs
> >> >>             from a Redis
> >> >>              >         server. This
> >> >>              >              IO will
> >> >>              >               > be soon extended to Redis PubSub.
> >> >>              >               >   * FileIO provides transforms for
> >> >> working
> >> >> with
> >> >>             files (raw).
> >> >>              >         Especially, it
> >> >>              >               > provides matching file patterns and
> read
> >> >> on
> >> >>             patterns. It can be
> >> >>              >         easily
> >> >>              >              extended
> >> >>              >               > for a specific format (like we do in
> >> >> AvroIO
> >> >> or
> >> >>             TextIO now).
> >> >>              >               >   * SolrIO to interact with Apache
> Solr
> >> >> (Lucene)
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >               > - On the other hand, improvements have
> >> >> been
> >> >>             performed on
> >> >>              >         existing IOs:
> >> >>              >               >   * We started to introduce readAll
> >> >> pattern
> >> >> in
> >> >>             IOs (AvroIO,
> >> >>              >         TextIO, JdbcIO,
> >> >>              >               > ...), allowing to pass "request"
> >> >> arguments
> >> >> via an
> >> >>             input PCollection.
> >> >>              >               >   * ElasticsearchIO has an improved
> >> >> support
> >> >> of
> >> >>             different
> >> >>              >         Elasticsearch
> >> >>              >              version
> >> >>              >               > (including Elasticsearch 5.x). It also
> >> >> now
> >> >>             supports SSL/TLS.
> >> >>              >               >   * HBaseIO is now able to do dynamic
> >> >> work
> >> >>             rebalancing
> >> >>              >               >   * KinesisIO uses a more accurate
> >> >> watermark
> >> >>             (based on
> >> >>              >              approximateArrivalTimestamp)
> >> >>              >               >   * TextIO now supports custom
> delimiter
> >> >> and like
> >> >>             AvroIO,
> >> >>              >         supports the
> >> >>              >              readAll
> >> >>              >               > pattern,
> >> >>              >               >   * Performance improvements on JdbcIO
> >> >> when
> >> >> it
> >> >>             has to read lot
> >> >>              >         of rows
> >> >>              >               >   * Kafka write supports Exactly-Once
> >> >> pattern
> >> >>             (introduce in
> >> >>              >         Kafka 0.11.x)
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >               > - A new DSL has been introduced: the
> SQL
> >> >> DSL !
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >               > We are now focus on 2.3.0 release with
> >> >> new
> >> >>             improvements and
> >> >>              >         features !
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >               > Stay tuned !
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >               > JB on behalf of the Apache Beam
> >> >> community.
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >               > On 12/02/2017 11:40 PM, Reuven Lax
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>              >               >> The Apache Beam community is pleased
> to
> >> >> announce the
> >> >>              >         availability of the
> >> >>              >               >> 2.2.0 release.
> >> >>              >               >>
> >> >>              >               >> This release adds support for generic
> >> >> file
> >> >>             sources and sinks
> >> >>              >         (beyond TextIO
> >> >>              >               >> and AvroIO) using FileIO, including
> >> >> support for
> >> >>             dynamic
> >> >>              >         filenames using
> >> >>              >               >> readAll; this allows streaming
> >> >> pipelines
> >> >> to now
> >> >>             read from files by
> >> >>              >               >> continuously monitoring a directory
> for
> >> >> new
> >> >>             filw. Many other
> >> >>              >         IOs are
> >> >>              >              improved,
> >> >>              >               >> notably including exactly-once
> support
> >> >> for
> >> >> the
> >> >>             Kafka sink. Initial
> >> >>              >              support for
> >> >>              >               >> BEAM-SQL is also included in this
> >> >> release.
> >> >> For a
> >> >>             more-complete
> >> >>              >         list of major
> >> >>              >               >> changes in the release, please refer
> to
> >> >> the
> >> >>             release notes [2].
> >> >>              >               >>
> >> >>              >               >> The 2.2.0 release is now the
> >> >> recommended
> >> >>             version; we encourage
> >> >>              >         everyone to
> >> >>              >               >> upgrade from any earlier releases.
> >> >>              >               >>
> >> >>              >               >> We’d like to invite everyone to try
> out
> >> >> Apache
> >> >>             Beam today and
> >> >>              >         consider
> >> >>              >               >> joining our vibrant community. We
> >> >> welcome
> >> >> feedback,
> >> >>              >         contribution and
> >> >>              >               >> participation through our mailing
> >> >> lists,
> >> >> issue
> >> >>             tracker, pull
> >> >>              >         requests, and
> >> >>              >               >> events.
> >> >>              >               >>
> >> >>              >               >> - Reuven Lax, on behalf of the Apache
> >> >> Beam
> >> >>             community.
> >> >>              >               >>
> >> >>              >               >> [1]
> >> >>             https://beam.apache.org/get-started/downloads/
> >> >>             <https://beam.apache.org/get-started/downloads/>
> >> >>              >         <https://beam.apache.org/get-
> started/downloads/
> >> >>             <https://beam.apache.org/get-started/downloads/>>
> >> >>              >               >> [2]
> >> >>              >               >>
> >> >>              >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?
> projectId=12319527&version=12341044
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?
> projectId=12319527&version=12341044>
> >> >>              >
> >> >>
> >> >> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?
> projectId=12319527&version=12341044
> >> >>
> >> >> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?
> projectId=12319527&version=12341044>>
> >> >>              >               >>
> >> >>              >               >
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >              --
> >> >>              >              Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> >> >>              > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> >>             <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]
> >>
> >> >>              >         <mailto:[email protected]
> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> >>             <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]
> >>>
> >> >>              > http://blog.nanthrax.net
> >> >>              >              Talend - http://www.talend.com
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >     --
> >> >>              >     Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> >> >>              > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> >>             <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]
> >>
> >> >>              > http://blog.nanthrax.net
> >> >>              >     Talend - http://www.talend.com
> >> >>              >
> >> >>              >
> >> >>
> >> >>             --
> >> >>             Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> >> >>             [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> >> >>             http://blog.nanthrax.net
> >> >>             Talend - http://www.talend.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> >> > [email protected]
> >> > http://blog.nanthrax.net
> >> > Talend - http://www.talend.com
>

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