+1 On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:52 PM Udi Meiri <eh...@google.com> wrote:
> +1 > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 4:27 PM Ahmet Altay <al...@google.com> wrote: > >> As a concrete proposal, could we commit to removing python 2 support by >> 2.24? In other words, mark the next release 2.23 as the last python 2 >> compatible Beam version. >> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:09 PM Valentyn Tymofieiev <valen...@google.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Another input here: >>> >>> If you opened a Python PR in the last few days, you probably noticed >>> that our test suites were broken by a transitive dependency of Beam that >>> dropped python 2 support, but did not declare python_requires>=3 in its >>> setup.py [1]. This temporarily broke a subset of Beam Py2 users (who did >>> not explicitly pin the 'rsa' dependency), and still affects Beam >>> development[2]. >>> >>> This is the second time[3] Beam is affected with an issue of this kind, >>> so support of Python 2 starts to slow down our development, and add toil >>> for maintainers of packages we depend on (both directly and transitively). >>> >>> [1] https://github.com/sybrenstuvel/python-rsa/issues/152 >>> [2] >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r9993b40b0c1cb8682ce56013165d4b80fdde0ee469a73bcb9466ddfb%40%3Cdev.beam.apache.org%3E >>> [3] https://github.com/hamcrest/PyHamcrest/issues/131 >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 4:06 PM Ahmet Altay <al...@google.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you for re-opening this Valentyn. I am in favor of EOLing py2 >>>> support sooner than later. The reality is that we will not be effectively >>>> supporting beam python 2 for a long time while the ecosystem already EOLed >>>> python 2. That said, a significant chunk (but no longer a majority) of our >>>> users are still using python 2. Upgrades are painful, it might be >>>> especially painful nowadays. It would be good to hear counter view points, >>>> user voices related to this. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 4:53 PM Valentyn Tymofieiev <valen...@google.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Back at the end of February we decided to revisit this conversation in >>>>> 3 months. Do folks on this thread have any new input or perspective >>>>> regarding us balancing "user pain/contributor pain/our ability to >>>>> continuously test with python 2 in a shifting environment"? >>>>> >>>>> Some new information on my end is that we have been seeing steady >>>>> adoption of Python 3 among Beam Python users in Dataflow, particularly >>>>> strong adoption among streaming users, and Dataflow is sunsetting Python 2 >>>>> support for all released Beam SDKs later this year [1]. We will have to >>>>> remove Python 2 Beam test suites that use Dataflow when Dataflow runner >>>>> disables Py2 support if this happens before Beam Py2 EOL (when we have to >>>>> remove all Py2 suites), including performance tests that still use >>>>> Dataflow >>>>> on Python 3. >>>>> >>>>> I am curious how much motivation there is in the community at this >>>>> moment to continue Py2 support in Beam, whether any previous Py3 >>>>> migration >>>>> blockers were resolved or any new blockers discovered among Beam users. >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://cloud.google.com/python/docs/python2-sunset/#dataflow >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:52 PM Valentyn Tymofieiev < >>>>> valen...@google.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's good news! Thanks for sharing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another datapoint, here are a few of Beam's dependencies that no >>>>>> longer release new py2 artifacts (I looked at REQUIRED_PACKAGES + aws, >>>>>> gcp, and interactive extras): >>>>>> >>>>>> hdfs >>>>>> numpy >>>>>> pyarrow >>>>>> ipython >>>>>> >>>>>> There are more if we include transitive dependencies and test-only >>>>>> packages. I also remember encountering one issue last month that was >>>>>> broken >>>>>> only on Py2, which we had to go back and fix. >>>>>> >>>>>> If others have noticed frictions related to ongoing Py2 support or >>>>>> have updates on previously mentioned Py3 migration blockers, feel free to >>>>>> post them. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 9:19 AM Robert Bradshaw <rober...@google.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> It hasn't been 3 months yet, but I wanted to call out a milestone >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> Python 3 downloads crossed the 50% threshold on pypi, if just >>>>>>> briefly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 12:40 AM Ismaël Mejía <ieme...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > I would suggest re-evaluating this within the next 3 months >>>>>>> again. We need to balance between user pain/contributor pain/our >>>>>>> ability to >>>>>>> continuously test with python 2 in a shifting environment. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Good idea for the in 3 months evaluation, at that point also >>>>>>> distributions will probably be phasing out python2 by default which >>>>>>> definitely help in this direction. >>>>>>> > Thanks for updating the roadmap Ahmet >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:49 AM Ahmet Altay <al...@google.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 1:29 AM Ismaël Mejía <ieme...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> I am with Chad on this, we should probably extend it a bit more, >>>>>>> even if it >>>>>>> >>> makes us struggle a bit at least we have some workarounds as >>>>>>> Robert suggests, >>>>>>> >>> and as Chad said there are still many people playing the python >>>>>>> 3 catchup game, >>>>>>> >>> so worth to support those users. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> But maybe it is worth to evaluate the current state later in the >>>>>>> year. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I would suggest re-evaluating this within the next 3 months >>>>>>> again. We need to balance between user pain/contributor pain/our >>>>>>> ability to >>>>>>> continuously test with python 2 in a shifting environment. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> In the >>>>>>> >>> meantime can someone please update our Roadmap in the website >>>>>>> with this info and >>>>>>> >>> where we are with Python 3 support (it looks not up to date). >>>>>>> >>> https://beam.apache.org/roadmap/ >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I made a minor change to update that page ( >>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/10848). A more comprehensive >>>>>>> update to that page and linked ( >>>>>>> https://beam.apache.org/roadmap/python-sdk/#python-3-support) would >>>>>>> still be welcome. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> - Ismaël >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 10:49 PM Robert Bradshaw < >>>>>>> rober...@google.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 12:12 PM Chad Dombrova < >>>>>>> chad...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Not to mention that all the nice work for the type hints >>>>>>> will have to be redone in the for 3.x. >>>>>>> >>>> > >>>>>>> >>>> > Note that there's a tool for automatically converting type >>>>>>> comments to annotations: https://github.com/ilevkivskyi/com2ann >>>>>>> >>>> > >>>>>>> >>>> > So don't let that part bother you. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> +1, I wouldn't worry about what can be easily automated. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> > I'm curious what other features you'd like to be using in the >>>>>>> Beam source that you cannot now. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> I hit things occasionally, e.g. I just ran into wanting >>>>>>> keyword-only >>>>>>> >>>> arguments the other day. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >> It seems the faster we drop support the better. >>>>>>> >>>> > >>>>>>> >>>> > >>>>>>> >>>> > I've already gone over my position on this, but a refresher >>>>>>> for those who care: some of the key vendors that support my industry >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> not offer python3-compatible versions of their software until the 4th >>>>>>> quarter of 2020. If Beam switches to python3-only before that point we >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> be forced to stop contributing features (note: I'm the guy who added the >>>>>>> type hints :). Every month you can give us would be greatly >>>>>>> appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> As another data point, we're still 80/20 on Py2/Py3 for >>>>>>> downloads at >>>>>>> >>>> PyPi [1] (which I've heard should be taken with a grain of >>>>>>> salt, but >>>>>>> >>>> likely isn't totally off). IMHO that ratio needs to be way >>>>>>> higher for >>>>>>> >>>> Python 3 to consider dropping Python 2. It's pretty noisy, but >>>>>>> say it >>>>>>> >>>> doubles every 3 months that would put us at least mid-year >>>>>>> before we >>>>>>> >>>> hit a cross-over point. On the other hand Q4 2020 is probably a >>>>>>> >>>> stretch. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> We could consider whether it needs to be an all-or-nothing >>>>>>> thing as >>>>>>> >>>> well. E.g. perhaps some features could be Python 3 only sooner >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> >>>> the whole codebase. (This would have to be well justified.) >>>>>>> Another >>>>>>> >>>> mitigation is that it is possible to mix Python 2 and Python 3 >>>>>>> in the >>>>>>> >>>> same pipeline with portability, so if there's a library that >>>>>>> you need >>>>>>> >>>> for one DoFn it doesn't mean you have to hold back your whole >>>>>>> >>>> pipeline. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> - Robert >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> [1] https://pypistats.org/packages/apache-beam , and that 20% >>>>>>> may just >>>>>>> >>>> be a spike. >>>>>>> >>>>>>
