Hi,

No problem for me. The only thing I don’t like with GitHub issues is that fact 
that it’s not possible to “assign” several milestones to an issue.
When we maintain several active branch/version, it sucks (one issue == one 
milestone), as we have to create several issue.

Regards
JB

> Le 10 déc. 2021 à 01:28, Kyle Weaver <[email protected]> a écrit :
> 
> I’m in favor of switching to Github issues. I can’t think of a single thing 
> jira does better.
> 
> Thanks Jarek, this is a really great resource [1]. For another reference, the 
> Calcite project is engaged in the same discussion right now [2]. I came up 
> with many of the same points independently before I saw their thread.
> 
> When evaluating feature parity, we should make a distinction between 
> non-structured (text) and structured data. And we don’t need a strict 
> mechanical mapping for everything unless we’re planning on automatically 
> migrating all existing issues. I don’t see the point in automatic migration, 
> though; as Jarek pointed out, we’d end up perpetuating a ton of obsolete 
> issues.
> 
>       • We use nested issues and issue relations in jira, but as far as I 
> know robots don’t use them and we don’t query them much, so we’re not losing 
> anything by moving from an API to plain English descriptions: “This issue is 
> blocked by issue #n.” Mentions show up automatically on other issues.
>       • For component, type, priority, etc., we can use Github labels.
>       • Version(s) affected is used inconsistently, and as far as I know only 
> by humans, so a simple English description is fine. We can follow the example 
> of other projects and make the version affected a part of the issue template.
>       • For fix version, which we use to track which issues we want to fix in 
> upcoming releases, as well as automatically generate release notes: Github 
> has “milestones,” which can be marked on PRs or issues, or both.
>               • IMO the automatically generated JIRA release notes are not 
> especially useful anyway. They are too detailed for a quick summary, and not 
> precise enough to show everything. For a readable summary, we use CHANGES.md 
> to highlight changes we especially want users to know about. For a complete 
> list of changes, there’s the git commit log, which is the ultimate source of 
> truth.
>       • We’d only want to preserve reporter and assignee if we’re planning on 
> migrating everything automatically, and even then I think it’d be fine to 
> compile a map of active contributors and drop the rest.
> 
> As for the advantages of switching (just the ones off the top of my head):
>       • As others have mentioned, it’s less burden for new contributors to 
> create new issues and comment on existing ones.
>       • Effortless linking between issues and PRs.
>               • Github -> jira links were working for a short while, but they 
> seem to be broken at the moment.
>               • Jira -> github links only show: “links to GitHub Pull Request 
> #xxxxx”. They don’t say the status of the PR, so you have to follow the link 
> to find out. Especially inconvenient when one jira maps to several PRs, and 
> you have to open all the links to get a summary of what work was done.
>               • When you mention a GH issue in a pull request, a link to the 
> PR will automatically appear on the issue, including not just the ID but also 
> the PR’s description and status (open/closed/draft/merged/etc.), and if you 
> hover it will show a preview as well.
>               • We frequently merge a PR and then forget to mark the jira as 
> closed. Whereas if a PR is linked to a GH issue using the “closes” keyword, 
> the GH issue will automatically be closed [3].
>       • I don’t have to look up or guess whether a github account and jira 
> account belong to the same person.
>       • There’s a single unified search bar to find issues, PRs, and code.
>       • Github enables markdown formatting everywhere, which is more or less 
> the industry standard, whereas Jira has its own bespoke system [4]. 
>       • In GH issues, links to Github code snippets will automatically 
> display the code snippet inline.
>       • GH labels are scoped to each project, whereas ASF Jira labels are an 
> unmanageable, infinitely growing namespace (see “flake,” “flaky,” “flakey,” 
> “Flaky,” “flaky-test”...).
> 
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=191332632
> [2] 
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/calcite-dev/202112.mbox/%3CCAB%3DJe-EuaijDjwb6umU_N2TaqFZawE%2BUbgZAgZYvrgPFypfAYQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> [3] 
> https://docs.github.com/en/issues/tracking-your-work-with-issues/linking-a-pull-request-to-an-issue#linking-a-pull-request-to-an-issue-using-a-keyword
> [4] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=191332632
> https://jira.atlassian.com/secure/WikiRendererHelpAction.jspa?section=all
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM Alexey Romanenko <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> Many thanks for details, Jarek!
> 
> Actually, your experience proves that the full data transfer is very 
> expensive (if even possible) and not necessary, especially taking the fact 
> that the number of Beam Jira issues is a couple of orders more than Airflow 
> one.  So, very likely that we will end up by living with two issue trackers, 
> at least for some time, to avoid issue duplications and have an access to old 
> ones. This can be very confusing.
> 
> In the same time, except the argument of “one tool for everything”, which is 
> quite strong for sure, I don’t see any other advantages of GH issues over 
> Jira issues. Also, the more important is not to lose what we have for now, as 
> Jan mentioned below. 
> 
> So, my vote for now is -0 since it has significant pros and cons and the 
> final impact is not evident.
> 
> —
> Alexey
> 
> > On 8 Dec 2021, at 01:38, Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 
> >> Do I understand correctly that this transition (if it will happen) 
> >> includes the transfer of all Beam Jira archive to GitHub issues with a 
> >> proper statuses/comments/refs/etc? If not, what are the options?
> > 
> > Suggestion from the experience of Airflow again - you can look it up
> > in our notes.
> > 
> > We've tried it initially to copy the issues manually or in bulk, but
> > eventually we decided to tap into the wisdom and cooperation of our
> > community.
> > 
> > We migrated some (not many) important things only and asked our users
> > to move the important issues if they think they are still
> > relevant/important to them. We closed the JIRA for entry and left the
> > issues in JIRA in read-only state so that we could always refer to
> > them if needed.
> > 
> > So rather than proactively copy the issues, we asked the users to make
> > the decision which issues are important to them and proactively move
> > it and we left an option of reactive moving if someone came back to
> > the issue later.
> > 
> > That turned out to be a smart decision considering the effort it would
> > require to smartly move the issues vs. the results achieved. And
> > helped us to clean some "stale/useless/not important" issues.
> > 
> > We've had 1719 open JIRA issues when we migrated. Over the course of
> > ~1.5 years (since about April 2020) we've had ~140 issues that refer
> > to any of the JIRA issues
> > https://github.com/apache/airflow/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aclosed+%22https%3A%2F%2Fissues.apache.org%2Fjira%22+.
> > Currently we have > 4500 GH issues (3700 closed, 800 opened).
> > 
> > This means that roughly speaking only < 10% of original open JIRA
> > issues were actually somewhat valuable (roughly speaking of course)
> > and they were < 5% of today's numbers. Of course some of the new GH
> > issues duplicated those JIRA ones. But not many I think, especially
> > that those issues in JIRA referred mostly to older Airflow versions.
> > 
> > One more comment for the migration - I STRONGLY recommend using well
> > designed templates for GH issues from day one. That significantly
> > improves the quality of issues - and using Discussions as the place
> > where you move unclear/not reproducible issues (and for example
> > guiding users to use discussions if they have no clearly reproducible
> > case). This significantly reduces the "bad issue overload" (see also
> > more detailed comments in
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=191332632).
> > 
> > I personally think a well designed issue entry process for new issues
> > is more important than migrating old issues in bulk. Especially if you
> > will ask users to help - as they will have to make a structured entry
> > with potentially more detailed information/reproducibility) or they
> > will decide themselves that opening a github discussion is better than
> > opening an issue if they do not have a reproducible case. Or they will
> > give up if too much information is needed (but this means that their
> > issue is essentially not that important IMHO).
> > 
> > But this is just friendly advice from the experience of those who did
> > it quite some time ago :)
> > 
> > J.
> > 
> > On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 1:08 AM Brian Hulette <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> 
> >> At this point I just wanted to see if the community is interested in such 
> >> a change or if there are any hard blockers. If we do go down this path I 
> >> think we should port jiras over to GH Issues. You're right this isn't 
> >> trivial, there's no ready-made solution we can use, we'd need to decide on 
> >> a mapping for everything and write a tool to do the migration. It sounds 
> >> like there may be other work in this area we can build on (e.g. Airflow 
> >> may have made a tool we can work from?).
> >> 
> >> I honestly don't have much experience with GH Issues so I can't provide 
> >> concrete examples of better usability (maybe Jarek can?). From my 
> >> perspective:
> >> - I hear a lot of grumbling about jira, and a lot of praise for GitHub 
> >> Issues.
> >> - Most new users/contributors already have a GitHub account, and very few 
> >> already have an ASF account. It sounds silly, but I'm sure this is a 
> >> barrier for engaging with the community. Filing an issue, or commenting on 
> >> one to provide additional context, or asking a clarifying question about a 
> >> starter task should be very quick and easy - I bet a lot of these 
> >> interactions are blocked at the jira registration page.
> >> 
> >> Brian
> >> 
> >> On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 9:04 AM Alexey Romanenko <[email protected]> 
> >> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Do I understand correctly that this transition (if it will happen) 
> >>> includes the transfer of all Beam Jira archive to GitHub issues with a 
> >>> proper statuses/comments/refs/etc? If not, what are the options?
> >>> 
> >>> Since this transfer looks quite complicated at the first glance, what are 
> >>> the real key advantages (some concrete examples are very appreciated) to 
> >>> initiate this process and what are the show-stoppers for us with a 
> >>> current Jira workflow?
> >>> 
> >>> —
> >>> Alexey
> >>> 
> >>> On 6 Dec 2021, at 19:48, Udi Meiri <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> +1 on migrating to GH issues.
> >>> We will need to update our release process. Hopefully it'll make it 
> >>> simpler.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 2:35 AM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Just to add a comment on those requirements Kenneth, looking into the
> >>>> near future.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Soon GitHub issues will open for GA a whole new way of interacting
> >>>> with the issues (without removing the current way) which will greatly
> >>>> improve iI think all aspects of what You mentioned). The issues (and
> >>>> associated projects) will gain new capabilities:
> >>>> 
> >>>> * structured metadata that you will be able to define (much better
> >>>> than unstructured labels)
> >>>> * table-like visualisations which will allow for fast, bulk,
> >>>> keyboard-driven management
> >>>> * better automation of workflows
> >>>> * complete APIs to manage the issues (good for GitHub Actions
> >>>> integration for example)
> >>>> 
> >>>> Re: assigning by non-committers is one of the things that won't work
> >>>> currently. Only comitters can assign the issues, and only if a user
> >>>> commented on the issue. But it nicely works - when a user comments "I
> >>>> want to work on that issue", a committer assigns the user. And It
> >>>> could be easily automated as well.
> >>>> 
> >>>> You can see what it will is about here: 
> >>>> https://github.com/features/issues
> >>>> 
> >>>> They are currently at the "Public Beta" and heading towards General
> >>>> Availability, but it is not available to "open" projects yet. However
> >>>> I have a promise from the GitHub Product manager (my friend heads the
> >>>> team implementing it) that ASF will be the first on the list when the
> >>>> public projects will be enabled, because it looks like it will make
> >>>> our triaging and organisation much better.
> >>>> 
> >>>> J.
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 1:46 AM Kenneth Knowles <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> This sounds really good to me. Much more familiar to newcomers. I think 
> >>>>> we end up doing a lot more ad hoc stuff with labels, yes? Probably 
> >>>>> worth having a specific plan. Things I care about:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> - priorities with documented meaning
> >>>>> - targeting issues to future releases
> >>>>> - basic visualizations (mainly total vs open issues over time)
> >>>>> - tags / components
> >>>>> - editing/assigning by non-committers
> >>>>> - workflow supporting "needs triage" (default) -> open -> resolved
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I think a lot of the above is done via ad hoc labels but I'm not sure 
> >>>>> if there are other fancy ways to do it.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Anyhow we should switch even if there is a feature gap for the sake of 
> >>>>> community.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Kenn
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 3:06 PM David Huntsperger 
> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Yes, please. I can help clean up the website issues as part of a 
> >>>>>> migration.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 1:46 PM Robert Burke <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Similar thing happened for Go migrating to use GH issues for 
> >>>>>>> everything from Language Feature proposals to bugs. Much easier than 
> >>>>>>> the very gerrit driven process it was before, and User Discussions 
> >>>>>>> are far more discoverable by users: they usually already have a GH 
> >>>>>>> account, and don't need to create a new separate one.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> GitHub does seem to permit user directed templates for issues so we 
> >>>>>>> can simplify issue triage by users: Eg for Go there are a number of 
> >>>>>>> requests one can make: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/new/choose
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021, 12:17 PM Andy Ye <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Chiming in from the perspective of a new Beam contributor. +1 on 
> >>>>>>>> Github issues. I feel like it would be easier to learn about and 
> >>>>>>>> contribute to existing issues/bugs if it were tracked in the same 
> >>>>>>>> place as that of the source code, rather than bouncing back and 
> >>>>>>>> forth between the two different sites.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 1:18 PM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Comment from a friendly outsider.
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> TL; DR; Yes. Do migrate. Highly recommended.
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> There were already similar discussions happening recently (community
> >>>>>>>>> and infra mailing lists) and as a result I captured Airflow's
> >>>>>>>>> experiences and recommendations in the BUILD wiki. You might find 
> >>>>>>>>> some
> >>>>>>>>> hints and suggestions to follow as well as our experiences at 
> >>>>>>>>> Airflow:
> >>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=191332632
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> J,
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 7:46 PM Brian Hulette <[email protected]> 
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>> I wanted to start a discussion to gauge interest on moving our 
> >>>>>>>>>> issue tracking from the ASF Jira to GitHub Issues.
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Pros:
> >>>>>>>>>> + GH Issues is more discoverable and approachable for new users 
> >>>>>>>>>> and contributors.
> >>>>>>>>>> + For contributors at Google: we have tooling to integrate GH 
> >>>>>>>>>> Issues with internal issue tracking, which would help us be more 
> >>>>>>>>>> accountable (Full disclosure: this is the reason I started 
> >>>>>>>>>> thinking about this).
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Cons:
> >>>>>>>>>> - GH Issues can't be linked to jiras for other ASF projects (I 
> >>>>>>>>>> don't think we do this often in jira anyway).
> >>>>>>>>>> - We would likely need to do a one-time migration of jiras to GH 
> >>>>>>>>>> Issues, and update any processes or automation built on jira (e.g. 
> >>>>>>>>>> release notes).
> >>>>>>>>>> - Anything else?
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> I've always thought that using ASF Jira was a hard requirement for 
> >>>>>>>>>> Apache projects, but that is not the case. Other Apache projects 
> >>>>>>>>>> are using GitHub Issues today, for example the Arrow DataFusion 
> >>>>>>>>>> sub-project uses GitHub issues now [1,2] and Airflow migrated from 
> >>>>>>>>>> jira [3] to GitHub issues [4].
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> [1] 
> >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/w3dr1vlt9115r3x9m7bprmo4zpnog483
> >>>>>>>>>> [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/issues
> >>>>>>>>>> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/AIRFLOW/issues
> >>>>>>>>>> [4] https://github.com/apache/airflow/issues
> >>> 
> >>> 
> 

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