this is the basis of argument, This is incorrect. The basis of the argument was Mick's point of view he expressed as an individual on the project, which is that projects that turn away contributions or try and force people into contributing in certain ways are not long for this world. A very basic logical argument with a lot of individual experience backing it up; anecdata I felt it appropriate to share knowing there are limitations on how much detail I can disclose. Also not consistent with the Apache Way, as Jeff pointed out.
You keep trying to bend this to a discussion about my credibility and about DataStax' incentives. If you think I'm lying to try and shift the project, please say so and stop hiding behind terms like "mythical" or "hypothetical". This is individuals on the project who care deeply about its welfare with points of view that strongly differ from yours, *as individual humans.* Much like another *individual human and committer *coming out of the woodwork to open up a bunch of tickets this week for post 4.0. Much like me waking up to Brandon this morning with him choosing to do this *because he as a human being is worried about the long-term health of the project.* Feel free to engage with us as the individual humans we are. Please stop trying to turn this discussion into an argument between talking heads advocating for what their respective companies are coercing them to do. We in the Cassandra engineering community are fortunate enough that our skills are in very high demand; in all likelihood people are working where they are because they share philosophical perspectives with the people they work with, not because of some top-down institutional mandate on them. For what it's worth, when I engage with other people working on large forks that want to bring their features back to the project, the absolute last thing I want to do to them is throw them into email threads like this. Fewer and fewer people have the appetite to deal with this bickering and exposing anyone new to this seems like a guaranteed way to turn them away from the project for good. Jordan: thanks for providing that context - it's quite helpful. Was that aspect of the conversation captured and shared with the rest of the project on the mailing list? It's a shame if not, since that may have contributed quite a bit to misalignment and misunderstanding over time. On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 12:22 PM, Benedict Elliott Smith < bened...@apache.org> wrote: > The discussion on the present topic has not concluded, and if we are > making an exception to 4.0 only then it really needs to. > > Members of one organisation have been pushing hard for feature development > to proceed, arguing it harms unnamed third parties. A request that these > third parties be asked to participate in the discussion has so far gone > unanswered. It is reasonable that this is answered before a vote, since > this is the entire basis of the argument in favour of branching. > > Given this is the basis of argument, I would also propose a less > contentious vote, should one be undertaken: to create a cassandra-5.0 > branch that is open only to contributions from those unaffiliated by > employment with any existing committers. This seems to alleviate the > concerns precipitating this discussion, while mitigating the concerns of > those who are opposed to it. > > On 24/09/2020, 17:02, "Jake Luciani" <jak...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The vote was to unfreeze new changes at beta, so logically that means > non-bugfix work goes into trunk. > > Jordan, thanks. That is a more recent vote so thanks. That being said, > under that line Benedict comments this needs to be discussed. So how about > we just have a Vote on branching cassandra-4.0 and the issue will be > decided? > > Jake > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 11:53 AM Benedict Elliott Smith <benedict@apache. > org> wrote: > > I'm not sure what you are referring to here, that vote said nothing about > branching at beta. > > The most recent vote on the topic anyway was for the Release Lifecycle > process, which stipulates branching at GA. > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/Release+Lifecycle > > We can vote to modify this document, or to make an exception, but I am > aware of no other vote stipulating anything about the point at which we > branch. > > On 24/09/2020, 16:49, "Jake Luciani" <jak...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Today the community still has in force an explicit vote prohibiting > > thee > merge of this work. > > You referred to an explicit vote here. I assume that was the one you were > referring to? Yes, the community should decide. > Call a vote if you think the community thinks we should continue the > freeze > vs continuing to rely on beliefs about the community. > > I'm simply pointing out the branching of 4.0 post beta was the plan of > last > record. > > Jake > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 11:44 AM Benedict Elliott Smith < benedict@apache. > org> > wrote: > > The community does everything through discussion and consensus. > > Does that > > include branching, or not? > > If there is no consensus, a vote is held. Whether or not you > > consider the > > vote from 2018 still valid, you still need to seek the consent of the > community for your action today. Or is that not sacrosanct anymore? > > On 24/09/2020, 16:22, "Jake Luciani" <jak...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm sorry I see no issue with branching 4.0 as it was the thing > > we > > voted on > back in 2018. If you wish to extend the freeze you should call > > a new > > vote. > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 11:15 AM Benedict Elliott Smith < benedict@apache. > org> > wrote: > > Nobody has any problem with an external repository being > > maintained. Just > > bear in mind the normal process will need to take place to > > merge to > > the ASF > > repository, and that there may be feedback and review requests > > to > > address, > > so merge order and diffs will probably change. > > On 24/09/2020, 16:05, "Brandon Williams" <dri...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:55 AM Benedict Elliott Smith > <bened...@apache.org> wrote: > > You do not have the authority to unilaterally overrule > > the > > community > > process. This is a serious breach of your responsibilities as > > a > > member of > > the PMC. > > Feel free to complain that I'm creating branches we intend > > to > > someday, > > perhaps even in 2020, release. > > I have deleted this branch, and will do so again if you > > repeat > > this. > > This would create some interesting tickets for INFRA, but > > I won't > > waste their time with you either. Whether either of us has > > the > > authority to do such on ASF infrastructure is irrelevant, > > since > > that > > is the only thing that can be argued here. The ASL > > absolutely > > allows > > people to innovate on their own with the code, so let's > > just > > move the > > bits. > > Those who wish to innovate, > https://github.com/driftx/cassandra/tree/cassandra-5.0 is > > now > > open for > > business, PRs accepted. This will be maintained to track > > trunk > > on the > > ASF servers. > > I guess this is the apache way. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For > additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org > > -- > http://twitter.com/tjake > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To > unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional > commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org > > -- > http://twitter.com/tjake > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To > unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional > commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org > > -- > http://twitter.com/tjake > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To > unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional > commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org >
