Hi all guys, I would like to confirm Henri Yandell's concern about the cutting releases :( I honestly think we should speak less and practice more the "releas early and often" karma because the sad reality is... we've been not good on it :( My Maven community experience let me totally astonished, we have released the fluido-skin in ~160 commits and 1 RC, something that would not be possible here. Of course we have issues there, but the pragmatism and the agility are totally surprising, that's why they have so many components/plugins/shared modules etc etc OTOH here at commons we have commons-collections, or commons-catastrophe like someone called in his blog: I recently proposed a short-therm roadmap, the big mountain that appeared in front of me simple made me feel to went away - it would have required a year of work - in the meantime Google-Guava continues publishing releases and we've lost users that migrated to more maintained FWs.We've had the Generics enabled in collections for a long time - even before that I joined as Sandbox contributor - but we've never released because of, as Christian already explained, endless discussions that induce people to give up. I think we suffer the "fix X before release" and "follow the roadmap" syndrome and we should add a little more of dynamism to improve. oh, and btw: big +1 to Gary and James :)
Just my 0.00002 cents, yours,Simo http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/ http://simonetripodi.livejournal.com/ http://twitter.com/simonetripodi http://www.99soft.org/ On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:08 PM, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote: > Also remember that releases can't be vetoed. Majority wins and must have 3 > +1s. You'll have mine on a 3.x release! > On Dec 2, 2011 2:40 PM, "Gary Gregory" <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:19 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On 2 December 2011 17:52, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > +1. to release early, release often. >> > >> > But I hope we don't want to break user applications. >> > >> > > Go for v3, seems simplest. >> > >> > Simpler for whom? >> > >> >> Simpler for people to use the latest version with new features. Users have >> to make a conscious decision to upgrade to a new release, there is no >> coercion. A new release, in 2.x or 3.x carries different migration costs. >> If the new features of a 3.x matter to me, I accept the costs. If the >> releasing a new feature is incompatible in 2.x, I have to deal getting it >> in a 3.x with package name changes (and any other breakage.) >> >> Gary >> >> >> > >> > We could always release major versions with package and Maven id >> > changes, and then compatibility issues would be irrelevant. >> > >> > However, would most end users want that? >> > (JDBC versions, anyone?) >> > >> > Assuming that there are many more users of the code than there are >> > developers, then I think the developers owe it to the users not to >> > break things unnecessarily. >> > Particularly for projects such as Commons, which are generally only a >> > small part of a larger application. >> > Projects like Tomcat or JMeter which are largely self-contained can >> > afford to make many more internal changes, but they still need to >> > ensure upwards compatibility as far as possible. >> > >> > > If someone really wants fixes in 2.x, then you release from the branch. >> > >> > The reason I started on this was to see if we could tweak the code >> > sufficiently to avoid having to do a major version release. >> > I think we are nearly there. >> > >> > So yes, more work for the developers, but a lot less hassle for most end >> > users. >> > >> > > Gary >> > > >> > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 12:27 PM, henrib <hen...@apache.org> wrote: >> > > >> > >> I've done the same thing and been pushing JEXL snapshots for sometime >> to >> > >> avoid the unpleasant moment, so unpleasant that I've procrastinated >> > enough >> > >> to now have to consider alternatives. >> > >> I find disturbing that committers fear to release and that goodwill to >> > >> share >> > >> features and code is killed by the process that should help publish >> > them - >> > >> not oppose them! >> > >> >> > >> I agree that a "release early, release often" scheme would help but >> > I've no >> > >> idea how to achieve this without a "release faster" mean. >> > >> >> > >> However, I ultimately suspect that the vested interest of some in >> > promoting >> > >> a hard, difficult and lengthy process relates to how their bills get >> > payed >> > >> and by whom; there is a huge difference in those of us doing this as a >> > >> "goodwill hobby" - so to speak - because we feel it is good ethics to >> > >> contribute back and those who make a living from it. Can't blame them >> > for >> > >> making sure their fees stay high by ensuring "hobbyists" don't get too >> > >> efficient! (just kidding :-)) >> > >> >> > >> Cheers, >> > >> Henrib >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> View this message in context: >> > >> >> > >> http://apache-commons.680414.n4.nabble.com/JEXL-Jexl-2-1-tp4147180p4148135.html >> > >> Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > >> >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org >> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >> > > JUnit in Action, 2nd Ed: <http://goog_1249600977>http://bit.ly/ECvg0 >> > > Spring Batch in Action: <http://s.apache.org/HOq>http://bit.ly/bqpbCK >> > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> > > Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org >> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >> JUnit in Action, 2nd Ed: <http://goog_1249600977>http://bit.ly/ECvg0 >> Spring Batch in Action: <http://s.apache.org/HOq>http://bit.ly/bqpbCK >> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
