On 27 November 2016 at 22:31, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 2:14 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 27 November 2016 at 22:03, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > These annotations are the SAME as have been published all over the place, >> > so I do not think we need a PR for review. Reviewing the code in the repo >> > should be enough, but I'm not sure _what_ there is to review really. I've >> > already posted a link to the sources (a pastebin link). I'll create a >> Jira >> > of course. >> >> There is one aspect that needs review: does the annotation belong in LANG? >> If we want to use the annotation in other components, do they have to >> depend on LANG? >> > > No see below and previous messages. > > >> If not, do they all have their own copies? >> > > No. > > >> >> And what happens when LANG needs a non-BC release? >> > > What is the issue I am missing? >
The package name for the annotation might need to change That would be a downstream nuisance. >> >> My expectation for such annotations is that they would be >> self-contained (or built-in to the languange, not LANG). >> > > It is _because_ they are NOT built-in the language or JRE that we are > proposing they belong in [lang]. > > Since we are providing the annotation with CLASS retention only > (initially), there is no hard dependency on [lang] at runtime. > > Is there some subtlety we are missing? Yes, the compile-time dependency. AFAIK it's not possible to have a Maven compile-only dependency; compile-time implies run-time. > Gary > > >> > Gary >> > >> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Benedikt Ritter <brit...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 27. Nov. 2016 um >> >> 21:01 Uhr: >> >> >> >> > So let's start with the CLASS retention annotations first. I'll commit >> >> > later today. >> >> > >> >> >> >> Maybe create a GitHub PR so people can have a look before it goes to >> >> master? >> >> >> >> Benedikt >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Gary >> >> > >> >> > On Nov 27, 2016 9:50 AM, "Matt Sicker" <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > I feel like documenting thread safety in such a low level, widely >> used >> >> > > library like [lang] is a great idea. Whether it uses annotations, >> >> > javadocs, >> >> > > or some sort of informal javadoc comments isn't too big a deal to >> me, >> >> but >> >> > > providing some guarantees of thread safety or lack thereof would be >> >> > > invaluable information. >> >> > > >> >> > > On 27 November 2016 at 07:11, Benedikt Ritter <brit...@apache.org> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > > I thought we decided to abstain from documenting thread safety >> since >> >> it >> >> > > > would get outdated quickly anyway. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 27. Nov. >> 2016 >> >> um >> >> > > > 09:11 Uhr: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > But if we then want a runtime version we had an odd packaging >> with >> >> > > CLASS >> >> > > > > retention in .concurrent. and RUNTIME in .concurrent.runtime. >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > I might be in YAGNI territory here... >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Gary >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com >> > >> >> > > wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > I think adding the additional clazz/runtime package would be a >> >> > little >> >> > > > > > overkill if you only include one packaging option for now. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On 27 November 2016 at 00:04, Gary Gregory < >> >> garydgreg...@gmail.com >> >> > > >> >> > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2016 8:40 PM, "Matt Sicker" <boa...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > I can think of a couple use cases for runtime retention >> for >> >> > > thread >> >> > > > > > safety >> >> > > > > > > > annotations, but they're not specific to commons lang. >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > 1. A framework could choose what type of data structure or >> >> > > > algorithm >> >> > > > > to >> >> > > > > > > use >> >> > > > > > > > at runtime based on the presence of which thread safety >> >> > > annotation >> >> > > > is >> >> > > > > > on. >> >> > > > > > > > Same for mutability. >> >> > > > > > > > 2. A testing framework could use these annotations to try >> and >> >> > > > > automate >> >> > > > > > > some >> >> > > > > > > > sort of thread safety tests, though that sounds like a >> hard >> >> > > problem >> >> > > > > to >> >> > > > > > > > actually implement. >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > However, it'd be easier to just start with class retention >> >> (or >> >> > > > source >> >> > > > > > > > retention) just for documentation purposes. Higher >> retention >> >> > > levels >> >> > > > > > could >> >> > > > > > > > be added later if an important use case came up. >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > But which packaging option? >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Gary >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On 26 November 2016 at 19:56, Gary Gregory < >> >> > > garydgreg...@gmail.com >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 3:54 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com >> > >> >> > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On 26 November 2016 at 19:25, Gary Gregory < >> >> > > > > garydgreg...@gmail.com >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > > > On a [crypto] thread, I mentioned >> >> > > > http://pastebin.com/RKPGGdJ9 >> >> > > > > > to >> >> > > > > > > add >> >> > > > > > > > > > the >> >> > > > > > > > > > > "classic" four javax.annotation.concurrent >> annotations >> >> to >> >> > > two >> >> > > > > > > packages >> >> > > > > > > > > > > (.clazz and .runtime) in Commons Lang for CLASS and >> >> > RUNTIME >> >> > > > > > > retentions. >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > You'd use the CLASS version to avoid a hard >> dependency >> >> on >> >> > > > > [lang]. >> >> > > > > > > > > RUNTIME >> >> > > > > > > > > > > to keep them around. >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > We'd use the CLASS versions in all of Commons for >> >> > > documenting >> >> > > > > > > thread >> >> > > > > > > > > > safety. >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts? >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Definitely Class retention, not Runtime. >> >> > > > > > > > > > You don't want to have to include the annotation jar >> on >> >> the >> >> > > > > runtime >> >> > > > > > > > > > classpath. >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Hi Sebb, >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Right now I have both of these packages: >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > - org.apache.commons.lang3.annotation.concurrent.clazz >> >> > > > > > > > > - org.apache.commons.lang3. >> annotation.concurrent.runtime >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Each with a copy of: >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > GuardedBy >> >> > > > > > > > > Immutable >> >> > > > > > > > > NotThreadSafe >> >> > > > > > > > > ThreadSafe >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Should we include what I have as is? >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > If we were to only provide the annotation at the CLASS >> >> > > retention >> >> > > > > > level, >> >> > > > > > > > > should we still package them in >> >> > ...annotation.concurrent.clazz >> >> > > in >> >> > > > > > case >> >> > > > > > > we >> >> > > > > > > > > want to provide annotation.concurrent.runtime later? >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > If we know for certain we never want to provide RUNTIME >> >> > > > retention, >> >> > > > > we >> >> > > > > > > can >> >> > > > > > > > > put them all in annotation.concurrent now. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Thoughts? >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Gary >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > [I don't know why the annotations were ever considered >> >> > > suitable >> >> > > > > for >> >> > > > > > > > > > runtime] >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Gary >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > -- >> >> > > > > > > > > > > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | >> ggreg...@apache.org >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >> >> > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/ >> >> product/1617290459/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > > > > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative= >> >> 9325&creativeASIN=1617290459& >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId= >> >> cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2 >> >> > > b8> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > <http://// >> >> > > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1& >> a= >> >> > > > > > > > > > 1617290459> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition >> >> > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/ >> >> product/1935182021/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > > > > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative= >> >> 9325&creativeASIN=1935182021& >> >> > > > > > > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId= >> >> > > > > > > 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4 >> >> > > > > > > > > 18%22 >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > <http://// >> >> > > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1& >> a= >> >> > > > > > > > > > 1935182021> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Spring Batch in Action >> >> > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/ >> >> product/1935182951/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > > > > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative= >> >> 9325&creativeASIN=1935182951& >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B% >> >> > > > > > > > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > <http://// >> >> > > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1& >> a= >> >> > > > > > > > > > 1935182951> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > > > > > --------- >> >> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons. >> >> apache.org >> >> > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: >> >> > dev-h...@commons.apache.org >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > -- >> >> > > > > > > > > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >> >> > > > > > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >> >> > > > > > > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/ >> product/1617290459/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > > > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative= >> >> 9325&creativeASIN=1617290459& >> >> > > > > > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId= >> >> > > > > > cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2 >> >> > > > > > > b8> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t= >> >> > > > > > garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a= >> >> > > > > > > > > 1617290459> >> >> > > > > > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition >> >> > > > > > > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/ >> product/1935182021/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > > > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative= >> >> 9325&creativeASIN=1935182021& >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId= >> >> > > > 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4 >> >> > > > > > 18%22 >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t= >> >> > > > > > garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a= >> >> > > > > > > > > 1935182021> >> >> > > > > > > > > Spring Batch in Action >> >> > > > > > > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/ >> product/1935182951/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > > > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative= >> >> 9325&creativeASIN=1935182951& >> >> > > > > > > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D& >> >> tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B% >> >> > > > > > > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action> >> >> > > > > > > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t= >> >> > > > > > garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a= >> >> > > > > > > > > 1935182951> >> >> > > > > > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> >> > > > > > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> >> > > > > > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > -- >> >> > > > > > > > Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > -- >> >> > > > > > Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > -- >> >> > > > > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >> >> > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >> >> > > > > < >> >> > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459& >> >> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId= >> >> cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8 >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > <http://// >> >> > > > > >> >> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1& >> a=1617290459 >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition >> >> > > > > < >> >> > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021& >> >> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId= >> >> 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4 >> >> > > 18%22 >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > <http://// >> >> > > > > >> >> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1& >> a=1935182021 >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Spring Batch in Action >> >> > > > > < >> >> > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_ >> >> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951& >> >> > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B% >> >> > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > <http://// >> >> > > > > >> >> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1& >> a=1935182951 >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> >> > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> >> > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_ >> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459& >> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8> >> > >> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a= >> 1617290459> >> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition >> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_ >> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021& >> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22 >> > >> > >> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a= >> 1935182021> >> > Spring Batch in Action >> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_ >> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951& >> linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B% >> 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action> >> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a= >> 1935182951> >> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> > Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org >> >> > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8> > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22> > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021> > Spring Batch in Action > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
