On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Joseph Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > That is a mischaracterization of the git story which was always about being > able to support multiple version control tools. Yes people were concerned > about the social side but we wouldn't be Apache without that debate. > > Same here. All you are seeing is some natural skepticism about the claims > being made. The door is open though to a well considered proposal that this > exercise should help refine.
Thank you. Even before any proposals, the first step is to see if a community can establish and maintain a cadence _within the rules as we know them today_, and stay healthy. Stephen has proposed that experiment to the Maven PMC of which he is the chair, and if it goes well, we'll make a proposal to take further steps. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 13, 2014, at 7:58 AM, Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> This conversation goes in a circle. I see two positions: >> >> 1: Cadence releases are inevitably incompatible with Apache community values. >> 2: Cadence releases are not inevitably incompatible with Apache >> community values. >> >> People who take the first position see this desire to use cadence as >> weakening of values and the brand. People who take the second position >> are frustrated. >> >> Note the phrase, 'not inevitably'. No one here is claiming, in the >> absence of an experiment, that this idea will inevitably lead to a >> perfectly healthy expression of Apache Community values. >> >> This conversation reminds me of the early days of the git discussion. >> At that time, some folks were convinced that 'git === fork culture'. >> Since 'fork culture' is pretty clearly incompatible with Apache >> community values, it took a very long time for us to decide to perform >> an _experiment_ in git usage to see what would happen. OK, here we >> are, the git experiment has been deemed a success. >> >> The following is utterly non-rhetorical. Something happened over the >> course of long discussion to move from 'git is evil, go away' to >> 'infra is willing to put effort into the infrastructure to support an >> experiment.' What was it, and is there any hope of following that >> path? >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Phil Steitz <phil.ste...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 2/12/14, 7:23 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Phil Steitz <phil.ste...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I know this looks old-fashioned, even downright anachronistic to >>>>> "push-hourly-from-CI" people; but deciding *what* to release *as a >>>>> community* is an important responsibility of ASF PMCs. Putting >>>>> things on a rigid schedule basically skips this step, which, IMHO is >>>>> a core part of our common culture and values. >>>> Should projects who wish to release on a regular schedule avoid Apache? >>> >>> I agree with Joe that that is the wrong question to ask. The right >>> question is what are the basic principles and values that >>> *communities* should buy into when deciding to join Apache. I >>> proposed a couple of them above. How releases happen, how policy >>> compliance is assured are secondary - the main thing communities >>> need to ask themselves when deciding to join the ASF is do they want >>> to do open, community-based development the way it is done here. If >>> cutting releases on a predetermined schedule is somehow a >>> "requirement" for them, the first question to ask is "why" and if >>> there is a good answer to that question then the second question is >>> how do you do that in a way that is consistent our principles. >>> >>> Phil >>>> >>>> Marvin Humphrey >>>> . >>>> >>>
