in your email, you say that we have made a lot of progress. but I disagree. we have made *some* progress. and that progress is good. but it is nowhere near enough. and I don't intend to stop complaining
I am extremely grateful to every person who has helped us make that progress. but as Rich said, we are under 8 feet of water. so perhaps some readers will excuse me for not being overtly thankful that we are no longer under *nine* feet of water if I had made any of the people who have put the effort to feel underappreciated or undervalued, then I sincerely apologize (to those people). I know what it is like to do this work without thanks indeed -- and I am surprised I have to add this, to be honest, but -- most of the work I have done at Apache in the 12 years I have been a contributor has been exactly this sort of work. indeed, much of the progress you describe can trace its roots back to efforts I have been involved in (code of conduct, CouchDB, etc) in my experience, the people who are also doing this work appreciate people like me being vocal about what needs to be improved and not mincing my words about it. because it validates the work they are also doing, or validates the feelings they share (if they are affected by the issues I'm talking about, etc) I cannot overemphasize how *demotivating* it is to do this sort of work on-list and to be repeatedly be met with naysayers, and filibustering, and pedantic unproductive circular arguments. it makes the work feel pointless. it is exhausting so if I was going to choose anyone to publicly upbraid, it would be those people On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 at 04:38, Ross Gardler <r...@gardler.me> wrote: > You can find posts from me on this topic going back a long way. Noirin > tried to educate me. I didn't learn fast enough, however, she did convince > me that I need to learn and act more quickly. Norin was one of the people who thanked me multiple times in private for continuing to be vocal on the lists about what is broken when they had run out of energy and left the discussion, demotivated and frustrated > In 2015 I broke from tradition for the State of the Feather talk at > ApacheCon. Rather than a self-congratulatory romp through statistics I > challenged the foundation to think about diversity. You can see the talk > here (I've linked to where I start on Diversity for your convenience). > https://youtu.be/1UkQBOvVhfw?t=1010 I was in the audience! Fast forward 4 years we've made very significant progress. Our diversity > numbers are up significantly. We have two women on the board - despite > Isabel (who could have been a third) stepping down from her director role > and re-nomination, we have a code of conduct and we are much more aware of > the problems that exist. Everything is going in the right direction because > of the hard work of a significant number of people. > in the kindest possible way: I don't need to be reminded of this. I am one of the people who has worked to make this happen > > Naomi, you are showing great tenacity and patience here. I fully support > your goals, but I do worry that demanding the foundation "police" these > things by forcing people to behave in a way you find acceptable is > counter-productive. That's just not what the foundation is. I have not once suggested that we "police" anybody. nor have I ever suggested we force people to behave in a way that is acceptable. perhaps you are confusing me for other people who have said things like this > We need to work within the structure of the foundation. that is 100% what I am advocating. I believe that the Community PMC has a responsibility, per its charter, to make structural changes to the organization as a whole to improve our community (and communities) -- and I believe that this work must touch the disparate community resources, the foundation-level resources, the Incubator, and every single project. in one way or another > We need to take action as individuals such that it becomes the norm and > this debate simply goes away. > I believe you are conflating two things here the work necessary to affect large-scale structural changes (i.e., the sorts of changes that must be made if we want to get anywhere close to what Sam describes when he relates his experience of the Node community) requires a collective effort, and that will, of course, require us to make an effort as individuals but that doesn't mean that an individualist strategy is the right approach here. this isn't as simple as "be the change you wanna be and the rest will fall into place". that's not how this sort of thing works the debate is never going to "simply go away". it's going to take long-term, coordinated effort to bring about broad structural change and then it is going to take long-term, coordinated effort to maintain that as the status quo > I do understand that accepting this is much easier for me, as a white male > who speaks English as a first language. I do understand that the slow > progress we are making is not good enough for those who do not fit into > this category. I do want to accelerate the change. However, I don't want to > force people to move faster than they are ready to move. It takes time for > people to get out of their comfort zones. I want to remind the list again here that I am one of those people who do not fit into that category. I am one of the people who was pushed out of this community because of the way I was treated. because of the exhausting and emotionally traumatizing experience I had to use Rich's analogy, if I am drowning, I hope you will excuse me for being one of the people shouting about how we need to do something about all this water. and yes I am hoping to spur people into action (I object to your use of the word "force" in this context -- as if I am the one wielding any power in this situation). why *aren't* they already as panicked as I am? we're under 8 feet of water! > I would not have done it if any one of those advisors had said "yeah, it's > good but it's not enough. You have to insist on this behavior, or that > behavior". this is an unfair and uncharitable characterization of my words and actions. you are again painting me as someone who wants to "policing" people. that's not what I am doing. I am shouting about how broken things are because it has had a direct impact on me, my life, and my health if the people around me who are not impacted by this stuff feel demotivated when the people who *are* complain about it, I honestly don't know what to suggest. except for maybe that those people shouldn't be looking towards people like me for their pep talks there's this wonderful thing called the "ring theory of kvetching" https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/promoting-hope-preventing-suicide/201705/ring-theory-helps-us-bring-comfort-in "The person in the center ring can say anything she wants to anyone, anywhere. She can kvetch and complain and whine and moan and curse the heavens and say, ‘Life is unfair’ and ‘Why me?’ That's the one payoff for being in the center ring." "When you are talking to a person in a ring smaller than yours, someone closer to the center of the crisis, the goal is to help. Listening is often more helpful than talking." "If you want to scream or cry or complain, if you want to tell someone how shocked you are or how icky you feel, or whine about how it reminds you of all the terrible things that have happened to you lately, that's fine. It's a perfectly normal response. Just do it to someone in a bigger ring." "Comfort in, dump out.” apologies for quoting so much, but it is apropos I don't think it is appropriate for (for example) the men at this organization to vent at the women about how demotivated they feel hearing about how much work is left to be done to make this organization safer for women. I'm not saying they shouldn't *have those feelings*, or that they shouldn't get support. but they should be getting support from other men. people *less* close to the issue > In my opinion it is counter productive to tell people, even indirectly, > who are working diligently to improve things that the foundation is doing > nothing. Look at the evidence. I have not once said that the foundation is doing nothing. I don't want to belabor the point here. but I want to point out again that most of the work I have done at the foundation has been related to this sort of thing. and I have, of course, during the course of that work, worked alongside other people who are also making an effort. so I am intimately familiar with the work that we are undertaking > How can it be true that we are not recognizing minority groups for their > contribution when we have gone from 0 to 1 to 2 women on the board in just > a few years? How can it be true that we are not recognizing minority groups > for their contribution when we are increasing the diversity across the > board? How can it be that we are not encouraging new people to join us from > minority groups when we've had TAC for years and this year it is > administering an additional fund for a specific minority group? > this is a logical fallacy "this organization is not doing enough" is not the same as "this organization has done nothing" > All that I ask is that you also take the time to positively reward the > good work some people are doing. Let it be seen that it is valuable, in its > own small way, to addressing the bigger problem. I don't think it's appropriate to ask a woman to positively reward men for making an effort. men should be encouraging each other for that. and I find it a little ironic that I am being asked to do this at the same time as being asked not to ask other people to change their behavior *having said that*, I have been operating under the belief that the people doing the work are well aware of how much I appreciate their efforts. there is a big difference between being critical of the organization and... uh... not being appreciative that people act on that criticism. and to be honest, I would have thought that most people are able to discern between the two > If we can have 100 people consciously addressing these issues we will be > moving faster to the end goal. With 200 it will be faster still at 350 > (half the membership) we will be unstoppable. Getting to 100 will be easier > than getting the first 5. > all of this is true. however... I was on the front lines. for half a decade. I burnt myself out trying to get people to give a shit. I had to take a break for my mental health. I've been away from these lists for a number of years now it doesn't seem fair to me that when I come back to make a contribution (despite everything *and* despite the fact that I still don't really have the emotional or psychological health to start being active in open source again) I am criticized for not giving pep talks surely, if anybody is to be criticized for not being peppy enough it should be the people on this thread who continue to frustrate my contributions? surely I am the person who's enthusiasm is the primary concern > On the other side of the coin A few people on this thread have gone so far > as to challenge whether there is even a problem at all. When presented with > data they dispute the validity of the data itself. I say those people can > live in their version of the world, but they are not welcome in mine. As > far as I am concerned denying the hard data and the qualitative evidence we > have is damaging to our communities and I will not stand for it. > but wait. that's what I am doing. not standing for it. and I am being criticized nowhere in my emails have I said "the foundation is not doing anything". what I have done is counter statements such as "the foundation is not discouraging contribution". which is plainly untrue our culture and the way we organize ourselves discourages women and other marginalized people from contributing. this very thread is, ironically, an example of that. it is precisely this sort of thing that pushed me away from the organization There is little point in arguing with these people. They have an opinion > and they will not be swayed through argument. We should treat these people > as trolls. We should focus on productive debate (including with those who > question whether the data is shining a light on the right problem). how does this mesh with what Sam said about how one of the things that makes the Node community so great is that trolls and people with harmful opinions are called out on it swiftly and in public something I learnt over many years toiling on the CouchDB community to rid ourselves of harmful behaviour (and in some cases, harmful people) is this: a community is defined by the behaviour it tollerates Once again, I believe the way we accelerate the change is not by forcing > it, but by acting, educating and rewarding. > again, I object to this framing that I am "forcing" anything or that I even have the power to force anything. but when it comes to rewarding *as opposed* to being critical, it appears that we have different approaches to communituy building
