So two major points I think we're disagreeing on are wether this is a large enough bit of development to warrant IP clearance and whether it "was developed outside the ASF".
On the first point I think we're just in disagreement. Not much else to really consider if one of us sees a chicken and the other sees a rabbit on that front. The second point is more interesting though. You jumped to the assumption that when Russel asked for a review on a PR that the work in the PR was "developed outside the ASF" hence triggering the IP clearance bit. Thinking idly about it, this almost seems like a fairly standard RTC approach to development (which is admittedly not what the project has done historically) (and also admittedly is the process that GitHub PRs embody). Given the RTC-ness of things, does this discussion about the submitted PR not constitute "developed at the ASF"? If people had technical issues or comments they'd chime in and let us know. If not then lazy consensus and the community agrees with the changes. Granted its always a judgement call. If someone worked for months on a new indexer and then said, "Ok to commit this?" we'd all agree on IP clearance. OTOH if I can review a change by skimming the PR in less time than it takes me to drink a cup of coffee then I don't think that constitutes significant external development. A threshold like that and we'd be asking for IP clearance from anyone that submitted a patch ever which is obviously silly. So yeah, bottom line I think this is a fairly trivial change set that is easily reviewable and is being managed pretty much exactly like any standard patch. On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> wrote: > I don't see how submitting things via the mailing list would be any > different. The issue here isn't the tooling. The issue is that a chunk of > development happened away from the project. If Russel had sent an email to > the list, or opened a JIRA with this patch, I would have exactly the same > questions. > > So the question isn't: how do we deal with Github? (I think we're fine as > it is.) It's: how do we work with people who are contributing big chunks of > work to the project. > > Well, in this instance, the Fauxton team are committers, so this should be > happening in the ASF repos. And it will be. We're all on the same page > there. This was an unfortunate exception to that. > > But for people who are not committers. I am not sure. I think that we need > to spot that these people are out there, and reach out to them before they > go too far down this road. I think we need to work on being more inclusive, > and handing out commit bits like Hail Mary passes. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Mary_pass > > > On 13 March 2013 20:40, Paul Davis <paul.joseph.da...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Reading this I see two big chunks: lots of minor template/JS tweaks >> and an import of some PouchDB sources. The PouchDB is almost exactly >> 50% of the lines added. Russel could have probably organized his >> commits a bit better to indicate that but given our relatively lax >> attitude to maintaining a clean history I can't really ding him on it. >> >> I understand that its good to be sure and clear things that need it, >> but I don't think the level of work here rises to that standard. >> >> OTOH, I think this is pointing out that we still haven't fully groked >> how to deal with GitHub PRs at the ASF. In a perfect world I'd turn >> them off and force everyone to submit code via mailing list. Granted >> that's probably a super minority position but I think we could use >> some more concrete project specific guidelines on contributions via >> PR. >> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> wrote: >> > Erk, sorry, this is the link: >> > >> > http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html >> > >> > Please note also that this process will take three days, and I will >> steward >> > it. I don't want us to cut corners because this process is seen as a >> > burden. Although in some respects, I do want code drops to seem like a >> > burden so that we instinctually avoid them as a community. ;) >> > >> > >> > On 13 March 2013 20:21, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> wrote: >> > >> >> Okay. I am happy to be overruled if we have consensus this if fine. >> >> >> >> I took a look and the changset seemed substantial. >> >> >> >> What do other people think? >> >> >> >> Before you answer, please make sure you are familiar with: >> >> >> >> incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/ip-clearance-template.html >> >> >> >> The key here is that: >> >> >> >> * It doesn't matter if the contributors are committers on the project >> >> * If the contribution is big enough that we consider it "done away from >> >> the project" then it needs IP Clearance >> >> >> >> The goal here is to have as much activity happening on the project lists >> >> as possible. The project welcomes code drops, but we need to recognise >> that >> >> they ARE code drops, and do the proper legal clearance. (And obviously, >> >> figure out contribution workflows so that committers are not >> contributing >> >> via code drops.) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 13 March 2013 20:10, Paul Davis <paul.joseph.da...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I'm confused on the IP clearance requirement. On IRC you described >> >>> this as a code drop but as I read through this I'm seeing a number of >> >>> fairly minor changes and a new feature for running M/R in the browser. >> >>> Given that Fauxton is so new this seems like rather straight forward >> >>> "working on new project" activity. >> >>> >> >>> The diff stats listed are: >> >>> >> >>> 20 changed files with 846 additions and 216 deletions. >> >>> >> >>> which seems rather modest to me given that its all HTML and JS. >> >>> >> >>> You quoted this bit on IRC: >> >>> >> >>> "Any code that was developed outside of the ASF SVN repository must be >> >>> processed like this, even if the external developer is an ASF >> >>> committer." >> >>> >> >>> And I'm confused on what that means in the context of Git and >> >>> specifically in context of GitHub PRs. I think there are some obvious >> >>> cases in both directions. A PR for a typo obviously doesn't require IP >> >>> clearance. The original Fauxton drop and the BigCouch merge obviously >> >>> do require IP clearance. >> >>> >> >>> But this seems like a fairly normal contribution. If we were rocking >> >>> the patches over email to apply to SVN I don't think anyone would have >> >>> batted an eye at this. Given the PR here it seems awfully like a >> >>> standard RTC pattern to me. >> >>> >> >>> While I agree that there's always a judgement call to be made on what >> >>> constitutes "development outside the ASF" I don't think this case >> >>> meets the criteria for what was intended by that policy. >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> >>> > Note to committers. Please do not merge this yet. >> >>> > >> >>> > We are going to have to put this through the IP Clearance process. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > On 13 March 2013 18:35, chewbranca <g...@git.apache.org> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> GitHub user chewbranca opened a pull request: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> https://github.com/apache/couchdb/pull/52 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Latest fauxton updates as of march 13 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Lots of updates and fixes >> >>> >> >> >>> >> * Initial view editor implementation >> >>> >> * Advanced view functionality >> >>> >> * Edit design docs >> >>> >> * Use _rewrites in fauxton couchapp >> >>> >> * Grunt template updates >> >>> >> * Lots of random fixes and cleanup >> >>> >> >> >>> >> You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> $ git pull https://github.com/cloudant-labs/couchdbfauxton-mar-13 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch >> at: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> https://github.com/apache/couchdb/pull/52.patch >> >>> >> >> >>> >> ---- >> >>> >> commit 7f88a2afedb27555b7e92aae1be2d4163bca0393 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-02-07T01:51:05Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Initial in browser MR using PouchDB.mapreduce.js >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 04018d243540ae71b703191e5125818506cf2dd0 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-02-08T21:29:02Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Adding PouchDB file blurbs >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 61ac6f86710192debc50c0cc2275d5ef94a6c658 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-02-14T02:32:01Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Move view editor around and lots more >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 4e038d789b54243aa5b05a819af09c385f5a1806 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-02-24T21:42:54Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Add meta data and more to views >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit f3300bbde51ac6c9d12d4cb83d67eef27c6fdeb5 >> >>> >> Author: Ryan Ramage <ryan.ram...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-02-25T22:32:56Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Adding support for fauxton behind a rewrite in a couchapp >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 68d36d33819c09af30daabea98e093f2b1622e2c >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-02-25T23:35:19Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Merge pull request #16 from garden20/fauxton-couchapp-rewrites >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Adding support for fauxton behind a rewrite in a couchapp >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 6033ac3fb6929258c2d47be272d66f4729bcecd1 >> >>> >> Author: Simon Metson <simon+git...@cloudant.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-02-26T16:15:38Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> remove shared databases from the all_dbs page - not a couchdb >> >>> feature >> >>> >> (might >> >>> >> come back depending on how we support replicas). >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 829db1ab39ad2a14b6b7a810fe947e47ea01eb66 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-02-26T19:48:27Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Add initial error handling for view establish functions >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 2c81ee740a20999b58199c00df927eff635168b4 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-06T00:25:15Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Clean up for bugs and non save/preview use >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 7d73a824acb6053b501a7f6dbd887168bad2fdb0 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-06T00:41:47Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Merge pull request #17 from cloudant-labs/fauxton-pouch-mr >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Advanced _view options and editor >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 0649bafacf15669d294258187e6c189759c1c93a >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-06T01:13:27Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Add results meta to all docs collection >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 3d4781de0b37ada0ebff3a6c4dc2a1f6da9feb95 >> >>> >> Author: Simon Metson <simon+git...@cloudant.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-11T15:30:04Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> remove templating configuration from grunt.js >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 73350051f9794f6428a4b36ce7be1c0561ebbad7 >> >>> >> Author: Simon Metson <simon+git...@cloudant.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-11T16:25:52Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> update tasks >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 9667be958948cad2e5d410ca4bc403664d694679 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-11T23:33:53Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Temporarily disable contribute addon and add gitignore >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 1bb903bed7d0bfda05d5c9eb0084a9dbd69110f5 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-11T23:39:57Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Add link to docs in api bar >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 3293c1d4d732048eed063cdb7c654d81e8ef8eeb >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-12T00:24:10Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Update all docs and all design docs links >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit e6dbe7a1cdb70378f17e782f26ea5a2ca5a88761 >> >>> >> Author: Simon Metson <simonmetson+git...@googlemail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-12T11:19:04Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Correct default template >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Spotted during review with Mike W. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 283e25a23147883c497203fa03e38ea552b40225 >> >>> >> Author: Michael Wallace <mikewallace1...@googlemail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-12T11:24:57Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Merge pull request #19 from >> >>> >> cloudant-labs/1690-template-settings-from-config >> >>> >> >> >>> >> 1690 template settings from config >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 0534bd8c5d82f0fb13da8d8a7a161d7f73b7b191 >> >>> >> Author: Mike Wallace <mikewallace1...@googlemail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-12T11:05:18Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Fix import of pouchdb >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit b18aa31b75f09e31028a97a74dffd81fc0b5667a >> >>> >> Author: Michael Wallace <mikewallace1...@googlemail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-12T11:30:42Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Merge pull request #20 from >> >>> cloudant-labs/fauxton-fix-pouchdb-import >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Fix import of pouchdb >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit f0b587c41c7ed777328827d06dc5a91521468c82 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-12T23:25:28Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Cleanup some broken things on documents >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 25881bb138b9341c1b31f573efe094f26ce66de9 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-13T17:31:02Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/fauxton' into fauxton >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Conflicts: >> >>> >> src/fauxton/app/templates/databases/sidebar.html >> >>> >> src/fauxton/app/templates/fauxton/api_bar.html >> >>> >> >> >>> >> commit 0d08a755880586cfcb23f0240b57ff8a6a5ba858 >> >>> >> Author: Russell Branca <chewbra...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> Date: 2013-03-13T17:32:59Z >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Fix span width for new database button >> >>> >> >> >>> >> ---- >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > NS >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> NS >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > NS >> > > > > -- > NS
