Mark, Here's one relevant topic I would like to discuss with you. I understand the Apache way encourages *open* discussion. In my opinion, the interaction on GitHub issue is one kind of the open discussion, and many modern open source projects leverages this as the major channel. What's your opinion on this?
Thanks, -Ian. On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:31 AM jun liu <ken.lj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > To provide some examples: > > > > I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the > > Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I > > receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We > > think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response > > is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker > > and I'll take a look." > > > > I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an > > issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail > > template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the > > users@ mailing list. > > These examples impressed me a lot, actually, I am experiencing this now. > People from work sometimes report issues about Dubbo through internal > communication channels (IM or work email). And I have to admit that in some > cases, I have chosen to directly discuss problems with them but forgot to > bring them to the community, which means I misused the two roles of work > and open source. > > Most of the times, language becomes the excuse for making the wrong > decisions, because some colleagues and users of Dubbo in china are not good > enough in English. For those users, maybe we can encourage them to provide > both the Chinese and English descriptions when reporting issues, for > example, write the Chinese version first and then directly translate to > English using Google. > > I think that the way Mark's been doing is right for running an open source > project, I will also try to “Redirect everyone reporting issues to the > mailing list or Github issue tracker". > > Best regards, > Jun > > > On 16 Aug 2018, at 19:17, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote: > >> Hi, mark > >> > >> Sorry for disturbing all of you. > > > > No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a > concern. > > > > My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of organisation > > going on that the project wasn't aware of. > > > > A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs for > > the same issue. > > > >> This is an activity for students to participate in open source project, > >> it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us > > > > If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that > > request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which means > > the dev@ mailing list. > > > > If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing that > > request on this list. > > > > My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee" > > hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is > > something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you find > > yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or anywhere > > that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on > > the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that the > > conversation needs to move to the mailing list. > > > > To provide some examples: > > > > I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the > > Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I > > receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We > > think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response > > is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker > > and I'll take a look." > > > > I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an > > issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail > > template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the > > users@ mailing list. > > > >> to > >> provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project, > and > >> we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute. > > > > Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively to > > men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to > > use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well. > > > > I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and > > expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as > > discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it. > > > >> Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many > emails, > >> which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways, > such > >> as one team fix issues separated from each other. > > > > It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the > > appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that > > the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me > > in my role as a mentor. > > > > Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of > > multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be > > duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches > > that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other. All > > I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is > > that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the best > > possible experience. > > > >> Do you guys have any other suggestions? > > > > More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on the > > notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect > > to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the > > activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and > > planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is > > happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start > > moving on to dev@ list. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mark > >
