On Oct 9, 2005, at 7:11 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Oct 8, 2005, at 1:59 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
On Oct 8, 2005, at 8:47 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Lets cut to the root of it - Is your problem with having to work
within the guidelines from the PRC, or is there some particular
problem with the guidelines themselves? I'm sure that if it's
the latter, any reasonable suggestion, change or addition will be
welcomed.
Well cutting to the chase, I do have a problem with the
guidelines. Everyone has an opinion on the logo, but the opinion
of the folks involved in the PRC seem to cary veto power. It is
clear that the PRC is simply trying to avoid potential future
problems, and I believe that it is important for the members of
the Geronimo community to hear the concerns of the PRC. I expect
the Geronimo community should take this into account when
selecting a logo, but I don't think that anyone other then the
Geronimo community should be choosing the logo.
The big problem here is the most popular logo is #11, and there
are a few outsiders that don't like this. Instead of them coming
to the community and trying to convince the community that this is
a bad choice, the PRC simply issues a mandate, and that grates on
me. I say, if you want to be involved in the Geronimo logo
process come here and discuss it, otherwise keep your opinions to
your self.
First, don't forget that this is an Apache project, and therefore
we have to abide by Apache Foundation guidelines for things.
In every email I have sent I have made this point. If this is an
official "Apache Foundation guideline" then we must follow it, or
appeal it to the board. I am questioning if this is an official
"Apache Foundation guideline".
Second, I think you are leaping to conclusions. If there is a logo
that we feel may not satisfy the guidelines but feel is ok, we
should probably just ask the PRC.
That statement implies that the PRC has jurisdiction over logo
selection, and I am questioning that.
If this is an official mandate of the board then we must accept
it, but I'm not happy about it, which is why I feel it is critical
to determine if this is a mandate of the board. Did the board
give the PRC rule making authority over all imagery at Apache?
Yes.
Cool. That was all I was asking. Now for a bit of Regan "trust but
verify". Where can I find the Board resolution stating this?
Did the board specifically direct the PRC to create logo
guidelines?
No, but that's utterly irrelevant. I asked the PRC to create
guidelines, because our name selection was and is controversial,
and there's absolutely no reason to further antagonize members of
the Apache community with a logo decision along the same lines.
Further, our name and imagery will be used far and wide in the
industry, and very prominently, and I thought that was another
excellent reason.
Assuming the above is true, I agree the question was irrelevant. If
you did have concerns, why didn't you come to the community first?
Has the Board officially accepted these guidelines or is this
still a rough draft?
Again, utterly irrelevant, as the board has officially delegated
responsibility for branding and imaging to the PRC, and doesn't
need to review every decision. If there are issues with the
guidelines, the PRC will welcome our feedback. If we're not
satisfied, we can appeal to the board, but I'm not sure what we'd
be trying to achieve at that point.
I think it is completely relevant. Given that this policy effects
the entire ASF and changes the way logos has been done up to this
point, if this is just a draft, I would propose that we wait for the
final form, because my guess is it will tick off some powerful Apache
members, and be changed.
I personally will be more comfortable if we knew exactly where
these guidelines stand within Apache.
I hope it's clear now.
It is now. I was my understanding that Apache tended favor putting
decisions into "Project Rights" and not "Foundation Rights", but I
guess as any organization ages there is a tendency to centralize more
and more.
BTW, I personally think #11 is tacky, but not offensive, and am
fine to have it in the contest, but personally #9 to win.
If we think that we should go to the PRC about #11 and ask, lets do
that. Otherwise, lets move on.
Good idea. Why don't we have the logo contest will all logos? I
think everyone in the community gets the seriousness of this issue,
and will take it into account when voting. If the winner is not
approved by the PRC, then we can take it to the board.
-dain
