Micah, many people will be OOO in the next two weeks. Can we extend the
feedback deadline to at least 1-2 weeks after the new year?

On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 8:45 AM Micah Kornfield <[email protected]>
wrote:

> > I have no problem with adding this discussion to the single file work,
> but I'm not sure that would speed it up? Seems like this is a pretty
> independent addition to the metadata layout?
>
> Yes, it is fairly independent.  The main reason I wanted to consolidate in
> the doc, it appears there is  a bit of metadata re-arrangement and new
> fields.  I wanted to make sure that:
>
> 1.  We avoid field ID conflicts.
> 2.  When writing up the final spec changes it is easy to manage and not
> create a dependency one way or another between the two of these.
>
> Happy to keep the implementation of the guard-rails as a separate piece of
> work.
>
> Cheers,
> Micah
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2025 at 7:31 AM Russell Spitzer <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I have no problem with adding this discussion to the single file work,
>> but I'm not sure that would speed it up? Seems like this is a pretty
>> independent addition to the metadata layout?
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 6:28 PM Micah Kornfield <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the clarification, Micah! I want to explicitly call out (and
>>>> double-confirm) the key principle here: all tags must be strictly optional
>>>> and never required for correctness or basic functionality. Engines should
>>>> always be able to safely drop or ignore tags without breaking reads or
>>>> writes, with the only possible impact being suboptimal behavior (e.g.,
>>>> extra I/O), as you described.
>>>
>>>
>>> 100% I will also add this summary to the bottom of the requirements
>>> section.
>>>
>>> Based on mailing list discussion and doc comments (or lack thereof), it
>>> does not seem like there are strong objections to adding this for V4.
>>> Prashant seemed to maybe have concerns, so I'd like to understand if they
>>> are blockers.
>>>
>>> If there isn't additional feedback by the end of next week, I'd like to
>>> assume a lazy consensus and consolidate this with the single file
>>> improvement work, which has already reorganized the metadata schema [1].
>>> Please let me know if there is a different process.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Micah
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k4x8utgh41Sn1tr98eynDKCWq035SV_f75rtNHcerVw/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.unn922df0zzw
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2025 at 5:38 PM Yufei Gu <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the clarification, Micah! I want to explicitly call out (and
>>>> double-confirm) the key principle here: all tags must be strictly optional
>>>> and never required for correctness or basic functionality. Engines should
>>>> always be able to safely drop or ignore tags without breaking reads or
>>>> writes, with the only possible impact being suboptimal behavior (e.g.,
>>>> extra I/O), as you described.
>>>>
>>>> As long as this constraint is clearly stated and enforced, the
>>>> trade-off feels reasonable to me.
>>>>
>>>> Yufei
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 4:28 PM Micah Kornfield <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Yufei,
>>>>>
>>>>>> If one engine started to rely on a tag for certain reasons(like
>>>>>> clustering algorithm), would data file rewrite(compaction) by another
>>>>>> engine remove the tag, and break the engine relying on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The intent here is that dropping tags should never break an engine.
>>>>> But it could cause suboptimal operations.  For instance, one example I
>>>>> brought in the docs is using tags to cache parquet footer size, to make
>>>>> sure it is fetched in 1 I/O.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case the following would occur.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.  Engine 1 does a write to file 1 and records its footer size in
>>>>> tags.
>>>>> 2.  Engine 2 does a rewrite/compactions and produces File 2 without
>>>>> tags.
>>>>> 3.  Engine 1 then tries to read file 2.  The tag for footer length is
>>>>> missing so it falls back reading a reasonable number of bytes from the end
>>>>> of the parquet file, hoping the entire footer is retrieved (and if it 
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> a second I/O is necessary).
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly for clustering algorithms, I think the result could yield a
>>>>> sub-optimally clustered table, or perhaps redundant clustering operations
>>>>> but shouldn't break anything. This is no worse then the case today though
>>>>> if engine 1 and engine 2 have different clustering algorithms and they are
>>>>> being run in interleaved fashion on the same table.  In this case it is
>>>>> highly likely that some amount of duplicate compaction is happening.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the current proposal, any metadata that is required for proper
>>>>> functioning should never be put in tags.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Micah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 4:02 PM Yufei Gu <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the proposal!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If one engine started to rely on a tag for certain reasons(like
>>>>>> clustering algorithm), would data file rewrite(compaction) by another
>>>>>> engine remove the tag, and break the engine relying on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yufei
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2025 at 2:58 PM Micah Kornfield <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Iceberg Dev,
>>>>>>> I added a proposal [1] to add a key-value tags field for files in V4
>>>>>>> metadata [2].  More details are in the document but the intent is to 
>>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>> engines to store optional metadata associated with these files:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.  The proposed field is optional and cannot be used for metadata
>>>>>>> required for reading the table correctly.
>>>>>>> 2.  It also proposes guard-rails for not letting tags cause metadata
>>>>>>> bloat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Micah
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/14815
>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16flxDXjpBiAs_cF3sjCsa7GlvSHQ0Mmm74c8yvYQlSA/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.cnpb2lth3egz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

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