Alexey, thanks for sharing details and your reasoning behind the taken actions. It makes sense. I've updated the machine learning pages on the new website that will be released in several days.
- Denis On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 11:07 AM Alexey Zinoviev <zaleslaw....@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, Denis! > > Be honest, the significant amount of the ML contirbutors left the community > previous year in frustration with unfinished parts. > In this situation, I reduced the unsed and broken parts according our > previous discussions peer-to-peer (not on devlist, our mistake) to release > the stable core of ML which could be supported with reduced power. > > The reasons for GA removal > 1. It doesn't related to the ML topic > 2. It has no intersection with the ML package (as you mentioned) > 3. It doesn't support Ignite code and in many places Java codestyle > 4. It was experimental package placed in ML in time of earliest experiments > in 2017 > 5. Nobody doesn't want to support this for the years > > Genetic Algorithms could be moved to Ignite-extension (if somebody > interested in it) > > A lot of things are changed since release 2.7 > > Lessons are learnt, I will start discussion topics next time for the > significant changes or removal in API, moreover, the next releases I hope > to use new @IgniteExperimental (it was added too late) and another > annotations for the release cycle. > > вт, 24 мар. 2020 г. в 20:00, Denis Magda <dma...@apache.org>: > > > Alexey, > > > > I missed this thread and only now realized that TensorFlow, genetic > > algorithms and some other APIs were expelled from 2.8. I would encourage > us > > to start a dedicated discussion for any APIs removal or significant > changes > > to let other community members share their opinions or take appropriate > > actions (like proper documentation redirects setup for pages that are > gone > > and updates on the website like [1] and [2]). For instance, I have no > glue > > that the topic of TensorFlow removal was briefly mentioned in this > > discussion thread. > > > > I see the reasoning about TensorFlow but why have we removed generic > > algorithms that had a dependency on the compute APIs only? > > > > [1] https://ignite.apache.org/features/tensorflow.html > > [2] https://ignite.apache.org/features/machinelearning.html#ga-grid > > > > - > > Denis > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 5:39 AM Alexey Zinoviev <zaleslaw....@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Ok, agree, that I should start discussion before making changes, but I > > was > > > limited by release 2.8 and trying don;'t be a delayed person for that. > > > During release I was focused on fixing bugs and don't tests TF and > Ignite > > > together > > > > > > I thought that as a maintainer of ML module I could do perform these > > > actions. > > > > > > Below I will share my statement why it should be removed and why it > > should > > > be removed immediately > > > > > > About TensorFlow module (reason for removal) > > > > > > 1. This module is only one module that uses IGFS and needs in > > FileSystem > > > on Ignte side due to TensorFlow API > > > 2. This module a part of bridge between Ignite ML and Tensorflow and > > its > > > broken after changes in TensorFlow on TensorFlow side > > > 3. TensorFlow released new version without Ignite bridge, no chance > to > > > run them together for new releases > > > 4. This module wasn't complete and developer who did this, left the > > > community > > > 5. The development skills for this story require python/C++/java > > > programming together > > > 6. The module is a source of bugs which could be fixed for release > 2.8 > > > and possibly for future releases (nobody in community could this) > > > 7. The release size reduced from 6 Gb to 4.5 due to removed > > dependencies > > > 8. TensorFlow now is not popular among Data Scientists, the PyTorch > is > > > the most popular tool for Deep Learning (like NetBeans and IDEA) > > > 9. Nobody uses that in production because it was developed between > 2.7 > > > and 2.8 (2.7 has only proof-of-concept) > > > > > > Nikolay, sorry for that, hope to share more information about the ML > and > > > discuss here the main changes before actions. > > > > > > пн, 17 февр. 2020 г. в 16:18, Nikolay Izhikov <nizhi...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > Hello, Alexey. > > > > > > > > > The main reason, the modules are not work proper way, were > > > experimental, > > > > > never released as a production-ready, support old, outdated > version, > > > the > > > > > external frameworks, like Tensorflow, move integration with ignite > to > > > the > > > > > special repos, they are not finished, the code there is broken and > > > > couldn't > > > > > be fixed, because and I have no power/C++ skills/permission to > commit > > > > > something to them and time to support this broken modules. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do we have some tickets or wider explanation for it? > > > > It very uncommon for me that the decision to remove modules from the > > > > master and release is not discussed widely in the community. > > > > > > > > > 17 февр. 2020 г., в 14:39, Ravil Galeyev <rgale...@gmail.com> > > > > написал(а): > > > > > > > > > > Hi Team, > > > > > > > > > > First of all, let me introduce myself. I’m Ravil, I contribute to > the > > > ML > > > > > module since 2018 and from time to time I make talks about it. > (I..e > > > data > > > > > science summit in Warsaw [1]). > > > > > > > > > > So, Alexey made a huge effort to develop the ML module but he is > not > > > > alone. > > > > > If you check the repo you will find other contributors. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore the ML module is alive and is able to run and has the > > > roadmap. > > > > > For me, it means that it’s not a raw project. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding documentation, it’d like to mention the code is the best > > > > > documentation :) > > > > > > > > > > We have examples for most algorithms [2]. But if it needed I’m > ready > > to > > > > > help the community with documentation in English German Polish or > > > > Russain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://dssconf.pl/ > > > > > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/ignite/tree/master/examples/src/main/java/org/apache/ignite/examples/ml > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Ravil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 at 11:49, Alexey Zinoviev < > > zaleslaw....@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hello, Igniters, and you, Nikolay. > > > > >> > > > > >> First of all, if you have real interest to the ML module and its > > > state, > > > > I > > > > >> could make call with you and explain this. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> *As far as I know, for now, we have only 1 active contributor to > > this > > > > area > > > > >> -Alexey Zinoviev.* > > > > >> Currently, we have 2 active contributors, me and Ravil Galeeyev, a > > few > > > > >> newbies, another guys who started tensorflow and another modules > and > > > > >> submodules don't visit the community for many months. > > > > >> > > > > >> *Is ML module production ready?* > > > > >> This release will be the first release, than ML is production > ready > > > and > > > > it > > > > >> totally my work. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> *Can someone related to the ML, please, give some examples of the > > CVE > > > > >> orissues that can be fixed only with removing a bunch of modules?* > > > > >> CVE is not the main reason to remove the "bunch of modules", but > > part > > > of > > > > >> the story. > > > > >> The main reason, the modules are not work proper way, were > > > experimental, > > > > >> never released as a production-ready, support old, outdated > version, > > > the > > > > >> external frameworks, like Tensorflow, move integration with ignite > > to > > > > the > > > > >> special repos, they are not finished, the code there is broken and > > > > couldn't > > > > >> be fixed, because and I have no power/C++ skills/permission to > > commit > > > > >> something to them and time to support this broken modules. > > > > >> > > > > >> Also broken TF module blocks the removal of IGFS. > > > > >> > > > > >> Found CVE were related to the dependencies related to > > > hadoop/tf/parquet > > > > and > > > > >> so on. > > > > >> > > > > >> *Should we mark it with the @IgniteExperimental? * > > > > >> I don't know, we have no this RAW annotation a few weeks ago and I > > > don't > > > > >> know how we should use it. > > > > >> It could be, if you finish the discussion about this annotation > and > > > the > > > > >> write docs about it and share it with me. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> * As far as I know, the ML module has no documentation. Is it > > correct? > > > > Dowe > > > > >> have plans to fix it?* > > > > >> The ML docs are here, on our Ignite documentation > > > > >> https://apacheignite.readme.io/docs/machine-learning > > > > >> of course, something could be wrong, 1.5 year we are not released > > > Ignite > > > > >> Yes, I have plan to fix. Of course, after fixing all bugs in > release > > > > branch > > > > >> > > > > >> *Should we move it to the ignite-extensions?* > > > > >> No we shouldn't, I don't want this, and have a lot of arguments > and > > > > >> currently is not the time for discussion about this (they are too > > > young > > > > and > > > > >> have now real infrastructure and release-cycle) > > > > >> > > > > >> P.S. Community, I understand that the removal of module looks > > strange, > > > > but > > > > >> we could understand that ML was a strange experiment without > roadmap > > > and > > > > >> this situation is finished. > > > > >> Now, I have roadmap (will be published later), newbie tickets, the > > > > ability > > > > >> to prepare correct docs, the understanding what could be used by > > > clients > > > > >> and first of all, production-ready ML (it could be run on > > > > Ignite-cluster, > > > > >> really, it works.) > > > > >> > > > > >> If you, Igniters, believe, that I could be a good maintainer for > ML > > > > module, > > > > >> please support me here in this thread > > > > >> If you think, that I do something wrong, OK, please write it too, > > I'll > > > > read > > > > >> carefully. > > > > >> > > > > >> I spent a few months to fix bugs in components, which were > abandoned > > > by > > > > >> their creators. > > > > >> > > > > >> My goal: Ignite should have light-weight, easy-integrated ML > without > > > > >> strange and unfinished experiments which could be not maintained. > > > It's a > > > > >> part of common movement in Ignite (removal of modules or moving > them > > > to > > > > the > > > > >> separate repos). > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> пн, 17 февр. 2020 г. в 12:10, Nikolay Izhikov < > nizhi...@apache.org > > >: > > > > >> > > > > >>> Hello, Igniters. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Can someone bring some light on the state of the ML module in > > Ignite? > > > > >>> As far as I know, for now, we have only 1 active contributor to > > this > > > > >> area - > > > > >>> Alexey Zinoviev. > > > > >>> I see how whole modules come and go from the module - [1] > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Please, also note this quote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Also as a result of good testing from both side (from me and > > Stepan) > > > > we > > > > >>>> found a lot of bugs and CVEs in hadoop related components that > > > should > > > > >> be > > > > >>>> removed in release branch too. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> 0. As far as I know, the ML module has no documentation. Is it > > > correct? > > > > >> Do > > > > >>> we have plans to fix it? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> 1. Can someone related to the ML, please, give some examples of > the > > > CVE > > > > >> or > > > > >>> issues that can be fixed only with removing a bunch of modules? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> 3. Is ML module production ready? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> 4. Should we mark it with the @IgniteExperimental? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> 5. Should we move it to the ignite-extensions? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> [1] > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/ignite/commit/53e886b8ed38a6842cef8b44ace6851855dfad29 > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
