Rajini, I am exploring this part right now. To support PLAINTEXT and SSL as protocols and Kerberos auth as authentication on top of plaintext or ssl (if users want to do encryption over an auth mechanism). This is mainly influenced by SASL or GSS-API performance issue when I enable encryption. I’ll update the KIP once I finalize this on my side . Thanks, Harsha
On April 24, 2015 at 1:39:14 AM, Rajini Sivaram (rajinisiva...@googlemail.com) wrote: Have there been any discussions around separating out authentication and encryption protocols for Kafka endpoints to enable different combinations? In our deployment environment, we would like to use TLS for encryption, but we don't necessarily want to use certificate-based authentication of clients. With the current design, if we want to use an authentication mechanism like SASL/plain, it looks like we need to define a new security protocol in Kafka which combines SASL/Plain authentication with TLS encryption. In KIP-12, it looks like the protocols defined are PLAINTEXT (no auth, no encryption), KERBEROS (Kerberos auth, no encryption/Kerberos) and SSL(SSL auth/no client auth, SSL encryption). While not all combinations of authentication and encryption protocols are likely to be useful, the ability to combine different mechanisms without modifying Kafka to create combined protocols would make it easier to grow the support for new protocols. I wanted to check if this has already been discussed in the past. Thank you, Rajini On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Rajini Sivaram < rajinisiva...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Harsha, > > Thank you for the quick response. (Sorry had missed sending this reply to > the dev-list earlier).. > > > 1. I am not sure what the new server-side code is going to look like > after refactoring under KAFKA-1928. But I was assuming that there would be > only one Channel implementation that would be shared by both clients and > server. So the ability to run delegated tasks on a different thread would > be useful in any case. Even with the server, I imagine the Processor thread > is shared by multiple connections with thread affinity for connections, so > it might be better not to run potentially long running delegated tasks on > that thread. > 2. You may be right that Kafka doesn't need to support renegotiation. > The usecase I was thinking of was slightly different from the one you > described. Periodic renegotiation is used sometimes to refresh encryption > keys especially with ciphers that are weak. Kafka may not have a > requirement to support this at the moment. > 3. Graceful close needs close handshake messages to be be > sent/received to shutdown the SSL engine and this requires managing > selection interest based on SSL engine close state. It will be good if the > base channel/selector class didn't need to be aware of this. > 4. Yes, I agree that the choice is between bringing some > selection-related code into the channel or some channel related code into > selector. We found the code neater with the former when the three cases > above were implemented. But it is possible that you can handle it > differently with the latter, so I am happy to wait until your patch is > ready. > > Regards, > > Rajini > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Sriharsha Chintalapani <ka...@harsha.io> > wrote: > >> 1. *Support for running potentially long-running delegated tasks >> outside >> the network thread*: It is recommended that delegated tasks indicated by >> a handshake status of NEED_TASK are run on a separate thread since they >> may >> block ( >> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/net/ssl/SSLEngine.html). >> It is easier to encapsulate this in SSLChannel without any changes to >> common code if selection keys are managed within the Channel. >> >> >> This makes sense I can change code to not do it on the network thread. >> >> Right now we are doing the handshake as part of the processor ( it >> shouldn’t be in acceptor) and we have multiple processors thread. Do we >> still see this as an issue if it happens on the same thread as processor? . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Harsha >> Sent with Airmail >> >> On April 22, 2015 at 7:18:17 AM, Sriharsha Chintalapani ( >> harsh...@fastmail.fm) wrote: >> >> Hi Rajini, >> Thanks for the details. I did go through your code . There was a >> discussion before about not having selector related code into the channel >> or extending the selector it self. >> >> 1. *Support for running potentially long-running delegated tasks >> outside >> the network thread*: It is recommended that delegated tasks indicated by >> a handshake status of NEED_TASK are run on a separate thread since they >> may >> block ( >> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/net/ssl/SSLEngine.html). >> It is easier to encapsulate this in SSLChannel without any changes to >> common code if selection keys are managed within the Channel. >> >> >> This makes sense I can change code to not do it on the network thread. >> >> >> 2. *Renegotiation handshake*: During a read operation, handshake status >> may indicate that renegotiation is required. It will be good to >> encapsulate >> this state change (and any knowledge of these SSL-specific state >> transitions) within SSLChannel. Our experience was that managing keys and >> state within the SSLChannel rather than in Selector made this code >> neater. >> >> Do we even want to support renegotiation. This is a case where >> user/client handshakes with server anonymously >> >> but later want to change and present their identity and establish a new >> SSL session. In our producer or consumers either present their identity ( >> two -way auth) or not. Since these are long running processes I don’t see >> that there might be a case where they initially establish the session and >> later present their identity. >> >> >> *Graceful shutdown of the SSL connection*s: Our experience was that >> we could encapsulate all of the logic for shutting down SSLEngine >> gracefully within SSLChannel when the selection key and state are owned >> and >> managed by SSLChannel. >> >> >> Can’t this be done when channel.close() is called any reason to own the >> selection key. >> >> 4. *And finally a minor point:* We found that by managing selection key >> and selection interests within SSLChannel, protocol-independent Selector >> didn't need the concept of handshake at all and all channel state >> management and handshake related code could be held in protocol-specific >> classes. This may be worth taking into consideration since it makes it >> easier for common network layer code to be maintained without any >> understanding of the details of individual security protocols. >> >> The only thing network code( SocketServer) is aware of channel >> isHandshakeComplete if its not do the handshake >> >> or go about read/write from channel. Yes socketServer need to be aware of >> channel is ready to read or not. But on the other hand >> >> there isn’t too many details of handshake leaked into socketServer. >> Either we let server know that a channel needs handshake or we keep the >> selectionKey state into channel which means we are adding selector related >> code into channel. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Harsha >> >> >> On April 22, 2015 at 3:56:04 AM, Rajini Sivaram ( >> rajinisiva...@googlemail.com) wrote: >> >> When we were working on the client-side SSL implementation for Kafka, we >> found that returning selection interest from handshake() method wasn't >> sufficient to handle some of the SSL sequences. We resorted to managing >> the >> selection key and interest state within SSLChannel to avoid SSL-specific >> knowledge escaping out of SSL classes into protocol-independent network >> code. The current server-side SSL patch doesn't address these scenarios >> yet, but we may want to take these into account while designing the common >> Channel class/interface. >> >> 1. *Support for running potentially long-running delegated tasks outside >> the network thread*: It is recommended that delegated tasks indicated by >> a handshake status of NEED_TASK are run on a separate thread since they >> may >> block ( >> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/net/ssl/SSLEngine.html). >> It is easier to encapsulate this in SSLChannel without any changes to >> common code if selection keys are managed within the Channel. >> 2. *Renegotiation handshake*: During a read operation, handshake status >> may indicate that renegotiation is required. It will be good to >> encapsulate >> this state change (and any knowledge of these SSL-specific state >> transitions) within SSLChannel. Our experience was that managing keys and >> state within the SSLChannel rather than in Selector made this code neater. >> 3. *Graceful shutdown of the SSL connection*s: Our experience was that >> we could encapsulate all of the logic for shutting down SSLEngine >> gracefully within SSLChannel when the selection key and state are owned >> and >> managed by SSLChannel. >> 4. *And finally a minor point:* We found that by managing selection key >> and selection interests within SSLChannel, protocol-independent Selector >> didn't need the concept of handshake at all and all channel state >> management and handshake related code could be held in protocol-specific >> classes. This may be worth taking into consideration since it makes it >> easier for common network layer code to be maintained without any >> understanding of the details of individual security protocols. >> >> The channel classes we used are included in the patch in >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-1690. The patch contains unit >> tests to validate these scenarios as well as other buffer overflow >> conditions which may be useful for server-side code when the scenarios >> described above are implemented. >> Regards, >> >> Rajini >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:13 PM, Sriharsha Chintalapani < >> harsh...@fastmail.fm> wrote: >> >> > Hi Jay, >> > Thanks for the review. >> > >> > 1. Isn't the blocking handshake going to be a performance concern? Can >> > we >> > do the handshake non-blocking instead? If anything that causes >> connections >> > to drop can incur blocking network roundtrips won't that eat up all the >> > network threads immediately? I guess I would have to look at that code >> to >> > know... >> > I’ve non-blocking handshake on the server side as well as for new >> > producer client. Blocking handshake is only done for >> BlockingChannel.scala >> > and it just loops over the non-blocking hand shake until the context is >> > established. So on the server side (SocketServer.scala) as it goes >> through >> > the steps and returns “READ or WRITE” signal for next step. For >> > BlockingChannel the worst case I look at is the connection timeout but >> most >> > times this handshake will finish up much quicker . I am cleaning up the >> > code will send up a patch in next few days . >> > >> > 2. Do we need to support blocking channel at all? That is just for the >> old >> > clients, and I think we should probably just leave those be to reduce >> > scope >> > here. >> > So blocking channel used not only by simple consumer but also >> > ControllerChannelManager and controlled shutdown also. Are we planning >> on >> > deprecating it. I think at least for ControllerChannelManager it makes >> > sense to have a blocking channel. If the users want to lock down the >> > cluster i.e no PLAINTEXT channels are allowed than all the communication >> > has to go through either SSL and KERBEROS so in this case we need add >> this >> > capability to BlockingChannel. >> > >> > >> > >> > 3. Can we change the APIs to drop the getters when that is not required >> by >> > the API being implemented. In general we don't use setters and getters >> as >> > a >> > naming convention. >> > >> > My bad on adding getters and setters :). I’ll work on removing it and >> > change the KIP accordingly. I still need some accessor methods though . >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Harsha >> > >> > >> > >> > On April 21, 2015 at 2:51:15 PM, Jay Kreps (jay.kr...@gmail.com) wrote: >> > >> > Hey Sriharsha, >> > >> > Thanks for the excellent write-up. >> > >> > Couple of minor questions: >> > >> > 1. Isn't the blocking handshake going to be a performance concern? Can >> we >> > do the handshake non-blocking instead? If anything that causes >> connections >> > to drop can incur blocking network roundtrips won't that eat up all the >> > network threads immediately? I guess I would have to look at that code >> to >> > know... >> > >> > 2. Do we need to support blocking channel at all? That is just for the >> old >> > clients, and I think we should probably just leave those be to reduce >> scope >> > here. >> > >> > 3. Can we change the APIs to drop the getters when that is not required >> by >> > the API being implemented. In general we don't use setters and getters >> as a >> > naming convention. >> > >> > The long explanation on that is that setters/getters kind of imply a >> style >> > of java programming where you have simple structs with getters and >> setters >> > for each field. In general we try to have access methods only when >> > necessary, and rather than setters model the full change or action being >> > carried out, and if possible disallow change entirely. This is more in >> line >> > with modern java style I think. We aren't perfect in following this, but >> > once you start with getters and setters people start just adding them >> > everywhere and then using them. >> > >> > -Jay >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Sriharsha Chintalapani < >> ka...@harsha.io> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi, >> > > I updated the KIP-12 with more details. Please take a look >> > > >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=51809888 >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Harsha >> > > >> > > >> > > On February 11, 2015 at 10:02:43 AM, Harsha (ka...@harsha.io) wrote: >> > > >> > > Thanks Joe. It will be part of KafkaServer and will run on its own >> > > thread. Since each kafka server will run with a keytab we should make >> > > sure they are all getting renewed. >> > > >> > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Joe Stein wrote: >> > > > Thanks Harsha, looks good so far. How were you thinking of running >> > > > the KerberosTicketManager as a standalone process or like >> controller or >> > > > is >> > > > it a layer of code that does the plumbing pieces everywhere? >> > > > >> > > > ~ Joestein >> > > > >> > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Harsha <ka...@harsha.io> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Hi, >> > > > > Here is the initial proposal for sasl/kerberos implementation for >> > > > > kafka https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/YI4WAw >> > > > > and JIRA https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-1686. I am >> > > > > currently working on prototype which will add more details to the >> > KIP. >> > > > > Just opening the thread to say the work is in progress. I'll >> update >> > the >> > > > > thread with a initial prototype patch. >> > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > Harsha >> > > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > > > -- > Thank you... > > Regards, > > Rajini > -- Thank you... Regards, Rajini
