I think this idea would best be kept at openejb. I think you are being incredibly overoptimistic about the amount of work involved for even web profile certification (what tomee has). You can get access to the tck by signing an NDA but just running it is a major undertaking, let alone fixing the problems that will show up.
thanks david jencks On Dec 14, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote: > OpenEJB is involved into the TCK process so KarafEE will inherit it > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gno...@gmail.com> wrote: >> So in order to convince architects and decision maker, you want to be >> certified I suppose. >> How much of the JEE certification do you really want to test / pass ? >> AFAIK, that's a *LOT* of work ... >> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 18:18, Charles Moulliard <cmoulli...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> Before to decide what to do we must dissociate from our discussions >>> the "How" from the "If". >>> >>> For my point of view KarafEE will be a OSGI Java Application Server >>> using Karaf as central platform and OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries as the >>> foundation for the Enterprise features and nothing more. EE is just >>> added for marketing/visibility reasons (like TomEE, Cloud, ...) If we >>> believe that it makes sense to promote "KarafEE" for the reasons that >>> we have presented before but also to convince architects, decision >>> makers that our technology is ready for Enterprise EJB/JPA projects >>> even if it is based on OSGI kernel then we should do that. Otherwise, >>> IT managers will continue to prefer to use JBoss, Glassfish, ... >>> servers as container for Java Enterprise project as nothing else exist >>> on the market. >>> >>> Next, if we decide to go into that direction, then we can discuss >>> Where and How this project will be "build" under the governance of >>> Apache Karaf, OpenEJB or any other Apache project. >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Achim Nierbeck <bcanh...@googlemail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> A big +1 for the Idea, since this is one of the things I can see to make >>>> the EJB community to move to OSGi and I was already looking/longing for >>>> such >>>> a feature about 1,5 years ago :) >>>> >>>> But as Dan already said I also see this more as a OpenEJB project. >>>> Never the less, we might start this KarafEE as a sub-project for Karaf and >>>> donate it to OpenEJB, when they are ready for it, >>>> or start it at GitHub, as Andreas did with the pax-exam specialty for >>>> Karaf? >>>> >>>> just some rambling of me :) >>>> >>>> regards, Achim >>>> >>>> 2011/12/14 Guillaume Nodet <gno...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>>> I was trying to find a way to express what i had in mind, but what you >>>>> said basically sums it up, so not much to add here. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 16:35, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm kind of +1 to the idea, but more -0.5 to the idea *here*. I'm >>>>> struggling >>>>>> to really see how it fits here as compared to being done as part of >>>>> OpenEJB >>>>>> community. We're getting a lot of stuff going on in Karaf right now >>>>> that is >>>>>> already beginning to splinter things up a bit and this just seems to me >>>>> to be >>>>>> further cause issues. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, if OpenEJB is already considering a Karaf based assembly, what >>>>> would the >>>>>> difference be between that and this? Anyway, I really think Karaf >>>>> should >>>>>> stick with the stuff we're working on and more or less leave the EJB >>>>> stuff and >>>>>> the EE server thing with OpenEJB to them. They are the experts in that. >>>>>> Basically, create an awesome Karaf assembly with all the stuff we >>>>> provide, >>>>>> then they can build on that to create an OpenEJB EE or something by >>>>> adding in >>>>>> their stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, another thing I hate seeing is circular dependencies between >>>>> projects: >>>>>> Karaf -> OpenEJB -> KarafEE >>>>>> but that's more of a personal opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To put it in another context, we could also create an "Karaf JBI" which >>>>> is >>>>>> Karaf + the JBI stuff from SMX. But that doesn't really make a lot of >>>>> sense >>>>>> to me as that's really up to the SMX folks to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That's $0.02 worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2011 1:40:17 PM Charles Moulliard wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of >>>>>>> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The >>>>>>> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered. >>>>>>> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we >>>>>>> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add >>>>>>> karaf command. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to >>>>>>> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release >>>>>>> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries >>>>>>> Transaction Manager. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will >>>>>>> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use >>>>>>> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good >>>>>>> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but >>>>>>> some arguments could be : >>>>>>> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have >>>>>>> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used >>>>>>> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a >>>>>>> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling, >>>>>>> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true >>>>>>> J2EE server could help to spread the world, >>>>>>> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit >>>>>>> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable >>>>>>> (e.g : features, ...). >>>>>>> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now >>>>>>> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix >>>>>>> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more >>>>>>> project does not longer use de facto Spring ! >>>>>>> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to >>>>>>> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers >>>>>>> architecture. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its >>>>>>> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process, >>>>>>> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a >>>>>>> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>> http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Ka >>>>>>> raf-tt4194577.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What do you think about this proposition ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Charles Moulliard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apache Committer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com >>>>>>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard >>>>>>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard >>>>>>> Skype: cmoulliard >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Daniel Kulp >>>>>> dk...@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog >>>>>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ------------------------ >>>>> Guillaume Nodet >>>>> ------------------------ >>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ >>>>> ------------------------ >>>>> Open Source SOA >>>>> http://fusesource.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC >>>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer & >>>> Project Lead >>>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------ >> Guillaume Nodet >> ------------------------ >> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ >> ------------------------ >> Open Source SOA >> http://fusesource.com
