2011/12/15 Łukasz Dywicki <l...@code-house.org>: > Let me put my 0.2 PLN.
Aren't you supposed to switch to euros in the near future ? Though I'd agree that's not the best time to think about it ;-) > I like the idea but I am also with Ioannis who told that we are going to have > too many subprojects. Currently our subprojects are not very active. Our team > do not grow quickly, some of us are busy in other projects or proffesional > life. Just see how long the 3.0 release takes. See how the Cave, Cellar and > WebConsole looks like now, like small zombies (especially the latest one > ;-)). User base is too small to create an community. That's makes me afraid > about next subproject. > Right, that's the reason why I think OpenEJB might be a better place. I fear it won't be much maintained here, as that's not the core of Karaf. > Best regards, > Lukasz > > >> I think this idea would best be kept at openejb. >> >> I think you are being incredibly overoptimistic about the amount of work >> involved for even web profile certification (what tomee has). You can get >> access to the tck by signing an NDA but just running it is a major >> undertaking, let alone fixing the problems that will show up. >> >> thanks >> david jencks >> >> On Dec 14, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote: >> >>> OpenEJB is involved into the TCK process so KarafEE will inherit it >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gno...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> So in order to convince architects and decision maker, you want to be >>>> certified I suppose. >>>> How much of the JEE certification do you really want to test / pass ? >>>> AFAIK, that's a *LOT* of work ... >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 18:18, Charles Moulliard <cmoulli...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Before to decide what to do we must dissociate from our discussions >>>>> the "How" from the "If". >>>>> >>>>> For my point of view KarafEE will be a OSGI Java Application Server >>>>> using Karaf as central platform and OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries as the >>>>> foundation for the Enterprise features and nothing more. EE is just >>>>> added for marketing/visibility reasons (like TomEE, Cloud, ...) If we >>>>> believe that it makes sense to promote "KarafEE" for the reasons that >>>>> we have presented before but also to convince architects, decision >>>>> makers that our technology is ready for Enterprise EJB/JPA projects >>>>> even if it is based on OSGI kernel then we should do that. Otherwise, >>>>> IT managers will continue to prefer to use JBoss, Glassfish, ... >>>>> servers as container for Java Enterprise project as nothing else exist >>>>> on the market. >>>>> >>>>> Next, if we decide to go into that direction, then we can discuss >>>>> Where and How this project will be "build" under the governance of >>>>> Apache Karaf, OpenEJB or any other Apache project. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Achim Nierbeck <bcanh...@googlemail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> A big +1 for the Idea, since this is one of the things I can see to make >>>>>> the EJB community to move to OSGi and I was already looking/longing for >>>>>> such >>>>>> a feature about 1,5 years ago :) >>>>>> >>>>>> But as Dan already said I also see this more as a OpenEJB project. >>>>>> Never the less, we might start this KarafEE as a sub-project for Karaf >>>>>> and >>>>>> donate it to OpenEJB, when they are ready for it, >>>>>> or start it at GitHub, as Andreas did with the pax-exam specialty for >>>>>> Karaf? >>>>>> >>>>>> just some rambling of me :) >>>>>> >>>>>> regards, Achim >>>>>> >>>>>> 2011/12/14 Guillaume Nodet <gno...@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I was trying to find a way to express what i had in mind, but what you >>>>>>> said basically sums it up, so not much to add here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 16:35, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm kind of +1 to the idea, but more -0.5 to the idea *here*. I'm >>>>>>> struggling >>>>>>>> to really see how it fits here as compared to being done as part of >>>>>>> OpenEJB >>>>>>>> community. We're getting a lot of stuff going on in Karaf right now >>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>> already beginning to splinter things up a bit and this just seems to me >>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> further cause issues. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, if OpenEJB is already considering a Karaf based assembly, what >>>>>>> would the >>>>>>>> difference be between that and this? Anyway, I really think Karaf >>>>>>> should >>>>>>>> stick with the stuff we're working on and more or less leave the EJB >>>>>>> stuff and >>>>>>>> the EE server thing with OpenEJB to them. They are the experts in >>>>>>>> that. >>>>>>>> Basically, create an awesome Karaf assembly with all the stuff we >>>>>>> provide, >>>>>>>> then they can build on that to create an OpenEJB EE or something by >>>>>>> adding in >>>>>>>> their stuff. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, another thing I hate seeing is circular dependencies between >>>>>>> projects: >>>>>>>> Karaf -> OpenEJB -> KarafEE >>>>>>>> but that's more of a personal opinion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To put it in another context, we could also create an "Karaf JBI" which >>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> Karaf + the JBI stuff from SMX. But that doesn't really make a lot of >>>>>>> sense >>>>>>>> to me as that's really up to the SMX folks to do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's $0.02 worth. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2011 1:40:17 PM Charles Moulliard wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of >>>>>>>>> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The >>>>>>>>> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered. >>>>>>>>> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we >>>>>>>>> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add >>>>>>>>> karaf command. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to >>>>>>>>> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release >>>>>>>>> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries >>>>>>>>> Transaction Manager. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will >>>>>>>>> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use >>>>>>>>> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good >>>>>>>>> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but >>>>>>>>> some arguments could be : >>>>>>>>> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have >>>>>>>>> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used >>>>>>>>> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a >>>>>>>>> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling, >>>>>>>>> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true >>>>>>>>> J2EE server could help to spread the world, >>>>>>>>> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit >>>>>>>>> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable >>>>>>>>> (e.g : features, ...). >>>>>>>>> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now >>>>>>>>> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix >>>>>>>>> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more >>>>>>>>> project does not longer use de facto Spring ! >>>>>>>>> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to >>>>>>>>> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers >>>>>>>>> architecture. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its >>>>>>>>> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process, >>>>>>>>> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a >>>>>>>>> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Ka >>>>>>>>> raf-tt4194577.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What do you think about this proposition ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Charles Moulliard >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apache Committer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com >>>>>>>>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard >>>>>>>>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard >>>>>>>>> Skype: cmoulliard >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Daniel Kulp >>>>>>>> dk...@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog >>>>>>>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ------------------------ >>>>>>> Guillaume Nodet >>>>>>> ------------------------ >>>>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ >>>>>>> ------------------------ >>>>>>> Open Source SOA >>>>>>> http://fusesource.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC >>>>>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer & >>>>>> Project Lead >>>>>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ------------------------ >>>> Guillaume Nodet >>>> ------------------------ >>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ >>>> ------------------------ >>>> Open Source SOA >>>> http://fusesource.com >> > -- ------------------------ Guillaume Nodet ------------------------ Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ ------------------------ Open Source SOA http://fusesource.com
