Just to be clear, my proposal is: 1. We keep all artifacts as they are today, no renaming, we keep the same code repo, etc 2. On Jira, the karaf component will be renamed to osgi (as we have decanter, cellar, etc) 3. On the website, Karaf "runtime" is already presented as a subproject (karaf.apache.org), same level as Cellar, Decanter, etc. So, Karaf "runtime" will appear as Karaf "OSGi" on the runtime, no big change. 4. We will have then Karaf "Minho" as new subproject, presented as Modulith Runtime
Thoughts ? Regards JB On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 6:12 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: > > OK, so let's focus on "K5" name. > > Actually, I wanted the opposite and give a chance for any subproject: > for most people karaf == the runtime (they don't necessarily see > winegrower, decanter, etc. > > But OK, let's keep the Karaf name and use a new subproject name. > > Maybe we can use just a tag name: no rename, but on the website use > Karaf (OSGi) to clearly stand it's the OSGi runtime. > > Regards > JB > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 9:09 PM Łukasz Dywicki <l...@code-house.org> wrote: > > > > Why rename karaf if it is what it was since begining? > > Karaf is with us since more than decade changing names is not going to help > > it. More over it will definitely confuse people and users as we do not have > > a communication channel to all of them other than this mailing list and > > website. > > We had multiple subprojects under Karaf till now. New runtime is yet > > another subproject. If it will evolve into something larger it can become > > its own TLP just like Karaf did back after leaving ServiceMix core and > > Felix. > > For now we dont know how it will grow hence I would abstain from making any > > changes to primary project/use. > > > > Best > > Łukasz Dywicki > > -- > > Code-House > > http://code-house.org > > > > > On 7 Oct 2022, at 12:57, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: > > > > > > My preference is Apache Karaf Minho. > > > > > > What do you think to rename Karaf 4.5.0 with a different name too ? In > > > order to avoid any confusion: Apache Karaf is the umbrella project and we > > > will have only subprojects (like in Felix). > > > > > > Thoughts ? > > > > > > Regards > > > JB > > > > > >> Le jeu. 6 oct. 2022 à 20:12, Matt Pavlovich <mattr...@gmail.com> a écrit > > >> : > > >> > > >> +1 on bringing Karaf 5 into the Apache Karaf project. > > >> > > >> My $0.02 on naming is that perhaps the ‘5’ should drop off, since it’ll > > >> have its own version number and in case w/ need a Karaf Runtime v5.x to > > >> support all the OSGi + Jakarta + JDK changes coming. > > >> > > >> Regarding name ideas— I think short and simple is best! Boot, Blend, > > >> etc. > > >> > > >> Perhaps whittle it down to 2 or 3 ideas? > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Matt Pavlovich > > >> > > >>> On Oct 6, 2022, at 8:59 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> It sounds good too ! > > >>> > > >>> Regards > > >>> JB > > >>> > > >>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:57 PM Jamie G. <jamie.goody...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Perhaps something like Apache Karaf Sustineri ? > > >>>> > > >>>> - The sustainably sourced modulith runtime > > >>>> > > >>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 11:22 AM Serge Huber <shu...@apache.org> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Thanks for the contribution JB. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Personally I think we should maybe look into having a new name for it > > >> to > > >>>>> make it easy to distinguish from Karaf ? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I'm especially worried if there ever is a Karaf 5 and K5 it's going to > > >>>>> become very confusing. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I don't have great alternative solutions for the moment but maybe > > >> something > > >>>>> like Alembic, Cauldron, ... > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Regards, > > >>>>> Serge... > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:38 PM Francois Papon < > > >> francois.pa...@openobject.fr> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> May be yes, we should find a project name more not old Karaf related > > >> to > > >>>>>> not lost the users. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Regards, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On 06/10/2022 15:25, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote: > > >>>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I don't use Karaf5, but K5 ;) > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> And yes, the first release would be K5 1.0 (for instance, 1.1, 2.0, > > >>>>>>> 2.1, 2.2, 3.0, etc, etc). > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Regards > > >>>>>>> JB > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 3:12 PM Jamie G. <jamie.goody...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> Agreed that proper naming and transition/migration guides will be > > >>>>>>>> necessary then to guide users. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> A question on the name "Karaf5" - what would its first release > > >> version > > >>>>>>>> be? 1.0.0? 5.0.0? > > >>>>>>>> It may be a little awkward to search Karaf5 2.0 or Karaf5 6.0. as > > >>>>>>>> it > > >>>>>>>> matures/evolves. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 10:10 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > > >> j...@nanthrax.net> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> Hi Jamie, > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Correct: we can imagine having the karaf-k4 module providing the > > >> same > > >>>>>>>>> support as Karaf (4): OSGi, features service, etc. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> To be honest, that's not my intention (I don't want to have K4 and > > >> K5 > > >>>>>>>>> coupled somehow together), but possible. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> IMHO, we will have Karaf users and K5 users, different usage. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Regards > > >>>>>>>>> JB > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 2:21 PM Jamie G. <jamie.goody...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> To my understanding it doesn't prevent OSGi, it just does not > > >> require > > >>>>>>>>>> it (very much in the spirit of Karaf letting you choose what you > > >> want > > >>>>>>>>>> to run Equinox/Felix, Log4j/SLF4j, etc). > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> In theory can an end user take their well formed application > > >>>>>>>>>> (features) and directly deploy them into K5 without refactoring? > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I've worked on numerous projects which started at Karaf 2, and > > >> have > > >>>>>>>>>> updated progressively to K3, K4. Does K5 represent a roadblock to > > >>>>>>>>>> evolution? > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 9:36 AM Łukasz Dywicki < > > >> l...@code-house.org> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello, > > >>>>>>>>>>> Looking forward towards donation of it as a subproject with > > >>>>>>>>>>> clear > > >>>>>> name. > > >>>>>>>>>>> Tehhnically speaking it is not Karaf 5 since it is not based on > > >>>>>> earlier principles. Dropping osgi is large change which will confuse > > >>>>>> existing users. > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hence following the ActiveMQ Artemis story we should be clear it > > >> is > > >>>>>> a new thing and has some things in common, but many more not inlined, > > >> with > > >>>>>> earlier release. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Best, > > >>>>>>>>>>> Łukasz > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>> Code-House > > >>>>>>>>>>> http://code-house.org > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 4 Oct 2022, at 18:35, Jean-Baptiste Onofré > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <j...@nanthrax.net> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys, > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> As already discussed on the mailing list several times before, > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I > > >>>>>> think > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Karaf 5 (a.k.a K5) is now in a good first shape (usable). > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> In a nutshell, K5 is a modulith runtime, able to launch and > > >>>>>> co-locate > > >>>>>>>>>>>> different kinds of modules/applications. It also provides a > > >>>>>>>>>>>> very > > >>>>>>>>>>>> simple services programming model. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> You can find documentation about K5 here: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://jbonofre.github.io/karaf5/ > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> NB: I will add the tools documentation asap. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> You can find the current source code here: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/jbonofre/karaf5 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> NB: you can see the tests as kind of examples. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Here's, basically my proposal I would discuss with you: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Create a dedicated repository for K5, something like > > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://github.com/apache/karaf-k5 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. For issue tracker and CI/CD, I propose to use GitHub > > >> resources > > >>>>>>>>>>>> (GitHub Issues and GitHub Actions). It's now an accepted and > > >>>>>> possible > > >>>>>>>>>>>> option from the Apache Software Foundation standpoint. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. For the website, I think karaf.apache.org should be just a > > >>>>>> landing > > >>>>>>>>>>>> page containing all "generic" topics about Apache Karaf project > > >>>>>>>>>>>> (mailing list, legal, etc) and then directed to Karaf 4 or K5, > > >>>>>> having > > >>>>>>>>>>>> dedicated sub websites for each. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts ? > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards > > >>>>>>>>>>>> JB > > >>>>>> > > >> > > >>
