Kris, Let's avoid putting the cart before the horse. Let's first have a consistent release scheduled with a few releases out... before starting such a discussion.
Also.. +1 for Enrique asks: detailed information what means to be part of Quarkus is also a necessity. On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 9:13 AM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Kris, > > Regarding "Encourage downstream distributions to include a packaged version". > > I think it is a bit of a stretch to consider this as an argument for > belonging or not to a platform as a first class citizen. The only > thing that encourages this is to create a binary package of the > distribution which in our case means to deploy to an artifactory, or > even products (a bit of a stretch though) > > Package distribution is a bit different topic than channels of > distribution. For me they are different concepts. If we have the > binary packages for quarkus runtimes or spring boot we are already > integrated with those projects. The only thing that adds to > registering our addons there is a new channel of distribution or > marketing stuff. but our packages were already produced in a previous > step. > > As It was mentioned before, Nobody is pushing back this decision, we > are just delaying till we have more time to spend on those things. If > you consider that the project has room for it I would suggest writing > down: > > 1. Effort required to set those in Quarkus (what it means to register, > should we go to new CI pipelines, should we go through certification > of those components, so forth) > 2. Which commiters will be responsible for it. Right now we are short > handed, and in the past some commitments were not fulfilled. So I > would like to know who is stepping up for doing this. > > It is not enough to say we should do something. We need more details > about the effort and what it means to register those artifacts in > there. > > El jue, 8 ago 2024 a las 14:52, Kris Verlaenen > (<[email protected]>) escribió: > > > > Alex, > > > > I respectfully disagree. One of the key things to do during incubation is > > community building and attracting new committers. One of the focus areas > > there is raising the profile of the project. Apache guidelines actually > > explicitly mention "Encourage downstream distributions to include a > > packaged version" as an example, I think what I'm proposing here is a light > > version of that. > > > > Just to reinforce, I'm suggesting we at least register our plugins in the > > quarkus ecosystem, we don't have to join the quarkus platform. But imho it > > would only be beneficial that when people browse the extensions [1], that > > our extensions at least show up there. There are various extensions that > > join the quarkus ecosystem while still in some form of "incubation". And > > there are some additional features that our community can directly benefit > > from as well, like the ability to use CI to at least detect potential > > upgrade issues early. > > > > Thx, > > Kris > > > > [1] https://quarkus.io/extensions/?search-regex=rules (for example when > > looking for rules) > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 7:03 PM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Kris, > > > > > > I think this is a topic for a TLP project, I struggle how to manage to > > > have > > > such a relationship while in incubation. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 12:56 PM Kris Verlaenen <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Making sure our technology is visible and well integrated imho will be > > > key > > > > to adoption. > > > > > > > > For that, I don't think we need to choose one platform over the other, I > > > > don't see it as an either-or, more like if we have contributors that > > > > want > > > > to work on that. > > > > I agree on challenges around releases, we do not want to align our > > > releases > > > > with external release schedules like Quarkus. But I believe this should > > > > not be required, for example the quarkus ecosystem should give us a lot > > > of > > > > flexibility to release at our own pace. And we can decide what version > > > of > > > > Quarkus we are targeting (more slowly following the LTS rather than > > > always > > > > chasing the latest community). > > > > Finally, I believe there are definitely strong signs of people looking > > > for > > > > this kind of integration, and that it's helping to expose our > > > > technology. > > > > The fact that the 10.0 release is a prerequisite for this has prevented > > > us > > > > from doing this, but I still get this question regularly from people > > > within > > > > the Quarkus community. > > > > > > > > Of course this should not block any of our release work, I believe this > > > is > > > > something we can look into once the release is available and approved, > > > > as > > > > it's basically more adding our project to the registry of known plugins > > > so > > > > people know where to find our artefacts. > > > > > > > > Thx, > > > > Kris > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 5:43 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I agree with all of this discussion. There are plenty of projects out > > > > > there that have modules/integrations/whatever with various platforms > > > and > > > > > are not considered "part of" the platform. I think KIE ends up being > > > the > > > > > same thing. It runs on/with Quarkus and Spring Boot, but doesn't > > > > > necessarily follow the same release cadence. I don't think we've been > > > > > listed as part of the Quarkus ecosystem since version 2 of Quarkus. I > > > > don't > > > > > know about Spring Boot. > > > > > > > > > > I really think we grow faster making Spring Boot a first class > > > > integration > > > > > for us. We'll get more people joining, using, helping, etc. > > > > > > > > > > On 2024/08/07 11:23:37 Alex Porcelli wrote: > > > > > > Quarkus is a fast paced environment, we still struggle to release > > > > > > 10; > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we have a regular consistent release schedule we can better > > > > > evaluate. > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 big time to raise SB3 as first class citizen before considering > > > > > Quarkus > > > > > > platform. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 5:34 AM Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Although it has not been our policy so far, from a community > > > > > perspective I > > > > > > > fully agree with Enrique, for the same reasons he argued. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 11:21 AM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez < > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tibor, > > > > > > > > Honestly I don't think we should make the effort to publish our > > > > > > > > extensions there (either quarkus or spring boot). This will tie > > > us > > > > to > > > > > > > > their lifecycle and that could be overkilling right now for us, > > > as > > > > we > > > > > > > > are moving towards GA. When the project is more mature I think > > > > there > > > > > > > > might be room to do it, but right now I don't think we should be > > > > part > > > > > > > > of those platforms., > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El mié, 7 ago 2024 a las 11:12, Tibor Zimányi (< > > > > [email protected] > > > > > >) > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Toshiya, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you for opening this thread. I personally think, we > > > should > > > > be > > > > > > > part > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Quarkus platform. However I think the question should be > > > broader. > > > > > > > > Majority > > > > > > > > > in the industry use Spring, so I think we should resolve this > > > > > > > discussion > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > a broader scale. I think Spring (and Spring Boot) should be a > > > > first > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > citizen too in our code the same way Quarkus is. So I think > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > discussion > > > > > > > > > should be about if we want KIE be part of both Quarkus > > > > > > > > > platform > > > > and > > > > > > > > > start.spring.io. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > Tibor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dňa st 7. 8. 2024, 11:06 Toshiya Kobayashi < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > napísal(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jan raised a concern > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd check one thing here with the mailing list - if we > > > still > > > > > want > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > perform any steps towards being part of that platform. I > > > mean, > > > > > fixing > > > > > > > > > > pipelines is a good thing here, but I am not sure if we > > > > actually > > > > > want > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > make it work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-pipelines/pull/1229#issuecomment-2268789394 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It means "Do we want to keep kogito as a part of > > > > > quarkus-platform?" > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > the quarkus platform jobs should even exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have thoughts on this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Saludos, Enrique González Martínez :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
