This is an example... Even if you are a listener this should be the endpoint. For some reason internal api and exposed api became entangled at some point so even if you go low code if you want persistence it should be like this.
https://github.com/kiegroup/kogito-runtimes/blob/main/jbpm/jbpm-tests/src/test/java/org/jbpm/bpmn2/ActivityTest.java#L233-L234 El mar, 21 ene 2025 a las 10:10, Toshiya Kobayashi (<[email protected]>) escribió: > > Hi Enrique, > > > Dont use kie session start workflow. Kie-api should be used instead. > > My example is a plain java in-memory ruleflow use case (not a persistent > process nor a kogito service). ksession.startProcess() is the only way I > know to start a ruleflow. > > Could you let me know the right method which you mentioned as "Kie-api > should be used instead" ? > > Toshiya > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 2:52 PM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Dont use kie session start workflow. Kie-api should be used instead. > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 3:54, Toshiya Kobayashi <[email protected]> > > escribió: > > > > > > but my concern is that it feels that we are back > > > > almost 20 years ago, just before we introduce RulesFlow. > > > > > > Yes, it's true. This is the most basic solution and the only supported > > > solution as of 10.0.0 + kjar. > > > > > > > would it be possible to point an > > > > example (or unit test) how to start a workflow using plain java api? > > > > > > kSession.startProcess(processId) starts a bpmn process. It's supported in > > > 7.74.0.Final. > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/tkobayas/kiegroup-examples/blob/master/Ex-ruleflow-migration/Ex-ruleflow-bpmn-7.74/src/main/java/com/sample/DroolsTest.java#L21 > > > > > > It also works in 10.0.0, but it depends on a legacy runtime which will be > > > removed as Enrique mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/tkobayas/kiegroup-examples/blob/master/Ex-ruleflow-10.0.0/src/main/java/com/sample/DroolsTest.java#L17 > > > > > > However, I guess Alex is asking for something different... Please let me > > > know the requirements in detail. > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:06 PM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Another somewhat related question: would it be possible to point an > > > > example (or unit test) how to start a workflow using plain java api? > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 8:53 AM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Given the current native implementation, it is not possible. > > > > > You would need to rework the rule node in workflow probably. > > > > > > > > > > El lun, 20 ene 2025, 14:50, Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > Enrique, > > > > > > > > > > > > My question still.. How is it possible to load a bunch of data into > > > > > > Drools and orchestrate multiple groups of rules without having to > > > > > > iterate over and over again on those loads of data. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 11:49 AM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason working memory exists in BPMN is to be used in > > > > > > > conditional nodes which does not make much sense IMO. (the > > > > replacement > > > > > > > for java conditional was already on the way) > > > > > > > This was dropped at some point in kogito (don't know the reasons > > > why) > > > > > > > but makes sense as working memory access does not make sense from > > > the > > > > > > > workflow engine. > > > > > > > How to orchestrate something like you are referring is more rule > > > > engine > > > > > > side. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El jue, 16 ene 2025 a las 17:05, Tibor Zimányi (< > > > [email protected] > > > > >) > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the orchestration could be done with rule units instead > > > of > > > > > > using a > > > > > > > > BPMN process to orchestrate the rule execution. However maybe I > > > am > > > > > > missing > > > > > > > > some context about rule units and I am wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Tibor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dňa št 16. 1. 2025, 15:40 Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > > > > > napísal(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Toshiya for the reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me step back ignoring kjar and etc... and ask: could you > > > > share > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > users can accomplish the same with the current state of the > > > > > > > > > technology? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Use case description: > > > > > > > > > As a user, I need - using java api - add thousands of > > objects > > > to > > > > > > > > > working memory and orchestrate 4 or 5 different ruleflow > > groups > > > > and, > > > > > > > > > at the end of the execution, access the working memory and > > > > iterate > > > > > > > > > over the working memory content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 4:32 AM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah, thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/t3o842mbj03c57cg5yw3tmo25qf2br1t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 6:15 PM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi toshiya > > > > > > > > > > > Search in *this* list drop legacy runtime in workflow. It > > > is > > > > a > > > > > > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El mié, 15 ene 2025, 9:47, Toshiya Kobayashi < > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, guys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I searched > > > https://groups.google.com/g/kogito-development > > > > , > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > > > > > find the discussion about kjar. Anyway, Kogito hasn't > > > > > > supported kjar > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > the beginning, so it's a very old story. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having said that, options seem to be: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A) Create a small subset of bpmn parser and engine > > (apart > > > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > kogito > > > > > > > > > > > > bpmn code base), which aims at only ruleflow (Start, > > End, > > > > Rule, > > > > > > > > > Gateway). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: Users can use the existing bpmn editor to > > author > > > > > > ruleflow > > > > > > > > > bpmn > > > > > > > > > > > > files. > > > > > > > > > > > > No need for a migration tool. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: It will likely have some duplication with the > > > > kogito > > > > > > bpmn > > > > > > > > > code > > > > > > > > > > > > base. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B) Create a new feature to support ruleflow. e.g. only > > > > changing > > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow-group with/without conditions. It may or may > > not > > > > be > > > > > > like .rf > > > > > > > > > > > file > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Note: This option's pros and cons are ambiguous as > > > the > > > > > > details > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > yet defined > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: The implementation may be smaller than bpmn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: Developing a migration tool would require some > > > > effort. > > > > > > (or no > > > > > > > > > > > > migration tool) > > > > > > > > > > > > Developing an authoring UI tool would require > > > some > > > > > > effort. > > > > > > > > > (or no > > > > > > > > > > > > authoring tool) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C) Just guide how to migrate ruleflow to drl and java > > > code. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: No additional development > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: Probably it's not possible to create a > > migration > > > > tool. > > > > > > It may > > > > > > > > > > > > require a large effort if a user has lots of ruleflows > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 6:13 PM Enrique Gonzalez > > > Martinez < > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason, > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the moment we dropped support for legacy runtime > > > kjar > > > > is > > > > > > not a > > > > > > > > > > > > supported > > > > > > > > > > > > > scenario in workflow. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El vie, 10 ene 2025, 17:24, Jason Porter > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think however this ends up being decided by this > > > > list, we > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > post a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conclusion/example/summary/something to the > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> list so anyone search that > > > list > > > > can > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somewhat related to that, do we want to try to > > > migrate > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Google Groups list to the users list now that > > 10.0.0 > > > is > > > > > > released? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Porter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 10, 2025 at 01:41 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION] ruleflow kjar > > > use > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, Toshiya, for bringing this up to ML. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For context, I’d like to remember that there are no > > > > Drools > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > jBPM; > > > > > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are components of Apache KIE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As of today, Apache KIE 10 supports kjar; Toshiya's > > > > example > > > > > > > > > proves > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, this could be considered a bug, not a > > new > > > > use > > > > > > case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enrique, regarding parity between runtimes, it’s > > not > > > > > > necessary to > > > > > > > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same level of feature support for all of them, > > so > > > > the > > > > > > scope > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > rule > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flow could be narrowed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I believe we can’t do is be dysfunctional and > > > > force > > > > > > drops of > > > > > > > > > > > major > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features after a major release without a proper > > > > heads-up > > > > > > or an > > > > > > > > > > > > > alternative > > > > > > > > > > > > > > path. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 12:10 AM Enrique Gonzalez > > > > Martinez > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi toshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kjar is not supported in workflow as the main > > focus > > > > is > > > > > > codegen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supporting in memory compilation would lead us to > > > > > > support two > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtimes and integration with drools. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point it might be working because the > > > legacy > > > > > > runtime is > > > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but any attempt to support this in kogito will > > get > > > > > > pushed back > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > removing thr old runtime therefore kjar wont > > work. > > > > There > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > several > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reasons for it. From how big the effort would be > > to > > > > > > parity > > > > > > > > > features > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtimes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the answer is no. We should not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El vie, 10 ene 2025, 4:20, Toshiya Kobayashi < > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Drools 8, in other words, since jBPM was > > > > moved > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > > Kogito, > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow (drl + bpmn) kjar use case has been > > > > dropped, > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't support kjar. A user is facing a > > > migration > > > > > > problem ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://kie.zulipchat.com/#narrow/channel/232677-drools/topic/Errors.20when.20moving.20from.20last.20Drools.207.20release.20to.20drools.208 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The combinations may sound confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - drl + bpmn in kogito service is supported. > > (See > > > > > > > > > > > > > > process-quarkus-example > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in incubator-kie-kogito-examples) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - drl in kjar is supported (See > > kie-maven-plugin > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > incubator-kie-drools) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - drl + bpmn in kjar is the topic of this > > thread > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I created an example with KIE 10.0.0 + drl + > > > bpmn + > > > > > > kjar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/tkobayas/kiegroup-examples/tree/master/Ex-ruleflow-10.0.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Adding org.kie.kogito:jbpm-bpmn2 dependency) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ``` > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mvn clean install -DskipTests > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mvn test > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ``` > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to work fine so far. (It has an issue > > > with > > > > > > "import" > > > > > > > > > > > > > handling, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I worked around it using FQCN. It's another > > > > story...) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having said that, shall we revitalize the > > > ruleflow > > > > > > kjar use > > > > > > > > > case? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think of these points: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Confirm the supported scope : No > > persistence. > > > > > > Limited > > > > > > > > > nodes > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Start, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule, Gateway?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Consult jbpm developers because the new jbpm > > > has > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > targeted > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kogito service use cases (= requires quarkus or > > > > > > springboot, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > depends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > codegen. Am I correct?). Any caveats to support > > > > kjar? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Create test cases in kogito-runtimes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Especially, about 2... Any concern about > > > supporting > > > > > > kjar with > > > > > > > > > > > jbpm > > > > > > > > > > > > (= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > org.kie.kogito:jbpm-bpmn2)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Saludos, Enrique González Martínez :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Saludos, Enrique González Martínez :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
